Returning a faulty Pro-Ject -- which replacement model?

[lini]

j8x8: Have you already asked around among your relatives, friends and aquaintances? Because often enough someone still has a no longer used, "forgotten" classic somewhere in the attic/cellar/garage/whatever, one could grab for next to nothing - and quite a few of those classics can easily compete with what's on the market in your price range today. Hence I'd suggest to check out that possibility. Another idea could be a search ad in the local newspaper or something like that...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[Zlatan Kitanov]

I have my Xpression III with factory-built 2M Red.
It sounds good for the money, no IGD noticed, but it also depends on the record itself. A big improvement was noticed when I replaced the original alluminium-rubber-damped feet with Soundcares. Also I have a stand for the turntable, full of quarz-sand. Gives improvement also. Anyway, I consider changing the cartridge in the future, when the current gets worn-out, with 2M Bronze. According writings should be a way better.
Greetings!

[j88888888]

I'd contact SOTA directly if there is not a dealer near you. They will take care of you. Made in USA baby!

I sent them an email. Donna responded promptly and confirmed that there are no resellers anywhere near me. So, if I want one, I have to buy it sight unseen, based solely on your recommendations. I'm very interested, since it's made in the USA.

So sell me. What is so amazing about the Moonbeam? They don't really talk much about features on the website. They talk about build materials, which is good to know. But I don't know how it compares to the Rega and Pro-Ject models I'm more familiar with. What makes it better? Are the adjustments bare-bones like the competition? Can the VTA be adjusted? What's the fit and finish like? Is it high-perceived-quality like Pro-Ject's products, or function before form like Rega? Does the wood finish look awesome, or does it look like Wal-Mart bookshelf laminate?

Most importantly, how and why does it sound better?

[j88888888]

Perhaps your Pro-ject dealer would let you take the 5.1/BP No. 2 home as a trial to see how it integrates with your room, your electronis, your speakers.

My thoughts exactly. I plan to talk to him about it after I do a bit more research.

As I said earlier, the 1.3 Genie with the Pearl was a very nice combo. I found the Pearl to be a very well balanced cartridge and pleasant to listen to. Just not overwhelming.

Did it seem lacking on its own, or just in comparison to the 5.1? I'm really trying to determine what will be good enough, rather than focusing on spending my entire budget.

[j88888888]

j8x8: Have you already asked around among your relatives, friends and aquaintances? Because often enough someone still has a no longer used, "forgotten" classic somewhere in the attic/cellar/garage/whatever, one could grab for next to nothing - and quite a few of those classics can easily compete with what's on the market in your price range today. Hence I'd suggest to check out that possibility. Another idea could be a search ad in the local newspaper or something like that...

I've been there and done that. At one point, I had a stack of four or five turntables in my basement. I'm not interested in tinkering. I haven't found a single used table that's good as-is (not counting a cartridge upgrade). Craigslist sellers have gotten wise to the vinyl resurgence, and they're selling crap at a premium. There's a record store nearby that resells vintage tables that have a 30 day guarantee, but they're not much of a savings over the models we're talking about here. I'd much rather have a new one that I know I can depend on and get warranty service if I do have a problem.

[j88888888]

I have my Xpression III with factory-built 2M Red.
It sounds good for the money, no IGD noticed, but it also depends on the record itself. A big improvement was noticed when I replaced the original alluminium-rubber-damped feet with Soundcares. Also I have a stand for the turntable, full of quarz-sand. Gives improvement also. Anyway, I consider changing the cartridge in the future, when the current gets worn-out, with 2M Bronze. According writings should be a way better.
Greetings!

That's good to know. I was seriously considering 2M Red/Xpression III combo. The only question is, if I spend $820 on an Xpression III with an upgraded cart and weight, is it worth another $180 to go with the 5.1?

[moon unit]

Why don't you just get the new Debut Carbon?

All new fully carbon fiber tonearm, bigger and heavier platter, new motor suspension and fitted with the Ortofon 2M Red.

At $399 US, it makes the Expression overpriced and obsolete.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?p ... es&lang=en

[Paraneer]

Moon Unit makes a good point. The new Debut Carbon looks like a very intriguing with substantial upgrades over the old Debut at what I believe is the same price. With the cartridge they are including, I think Pro-ject is going to sell a ton of them at this price point.

j8's, Getting back to your question regading the 5.1 SE being a big leap from the 1.3 Genie. Yes, to me the Genie was lacking on its own - not just in comparison to the 5.1 SE. To be frank, I was not impressed with the Genie's tonearm and after zero balancing it, it was the hardest arm I ever set tracking force with (1.8 g for the stock Pearl it comes with). Very touchy counterweight. Also, I questioned it's ability to handle much better cartridges down the road if I was to upgrade. It is clearly entry level - an 8.6" aluminum S-shaped arm. The 9" full carbon fiber arm on the 5.1 SE is very nice and I would have no reservations equipping it with a much better cartridge when the time comes to retip the BP No. 2. This arm balanced out like a dream and after zero balance, applying the tracking force with the numbered dial on the counterweight was a breeze. 1.8 g on the dial was exactly 1.8 grams on my trusty Shure scale (35 years old but still accurate) and I checked it several times. Perfect.

Hope all this feedback helps. Good luck in your final decision.

[j88888888]

Why don't you just get the new Debut Carbon?

All new fully carbon fiber tonearm, bigger and heavier platter, new motor suspension and fitted with the Ortofon 2M Red.

At $399 US, it makes the Expression overpriced and obsolete.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?p ... es&lang=en

That's a damn good idea. I didn't even know they existed. Are they available in the US?

[j88888888]

Moon Unit makes a good point. The new Debut Carbon looks like a very intriguing with substantial upgrades over the old Debut at what I believe is the same price. With the cartridge they are including, I think Pro-ject is going to sell a ton of them at this price point.

j8's, Getting back to your question regading the 5.1 SE being a big leap from the 1.3 Genie. Yes, to me the Genie was lacking on its own - not just in comparison to the 5.1 SE. To be frank, I was not impressed with the Genie's tonearm and after zero balancing it, it was the hardest arm I ever set tracking force with (1.8 g for the stock Pearl it comes with). Very touchy counterweight. Also, I questioned it's ability to handle much better cartridges down the road if I was to upgrade. It is clearly entry level - an 8.6" aluminum S-shaped arm. The 9" full carbon fiber arm on the 5.1 SE is very nice and I would have no reservations equipping it with a much better cartridge when the time comes to retip the BP No. 2. This arm balanced out like a dream and after zero balance, applying the tracking force with the numbered dial on the counterweight was a breeze. 1.8 g on the dial was exactly 1.8 grams on my trusty Shure scale (35 years old but still accurate) and I checked it several times. Perfect.

Hope all this feedback helps. Good luck in your final decision.

Your feedback helps a ton. Thank you!

[moon unit]

Why don't you just get the new Debut Carbon?

All new fully carbon fiber tonearm, bigger and heavier platter, new motor suspension and fitted with the Ortofon 2M Red.

At $399 US, it makes the Expression overpriced and obsolete.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?p ... es&lang=en

That's a damn good idea. I didn't even know they existed. Are they available in the US?

They will be available in a week or two, your dealer should be able to order one now.

[Zlatan Kitanov]

The Debut Carbon is not a bad idea at all. Or you could jump up to the Xperience model line. Here comes also the question if you would plan any upgrades in the future - cartridge, tonearm, motor, supply, bearing, platter or chassis, etc. Maybe some of them could be already built in-stock. After all, it's about where are you aiming at, where do you finally stop evolving your system... What makes sense for you.

[j88888888]

They will be available in a week or two, your dealer should be able to order one now.

That seems like an awesome table for the price, but the Debut line lacks a VTA adjustment, correct? I wouldn't be too upset about that, at this price point, but is that going to be a serious limitation in the future? I'm guessing probably not if I opt for the 2M, since I can upgrade the stylus?

[jackfish]

Music Hall MMF 5.1