the home of the turntable

Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

czech it out

Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby sergio_oliva » 10 Nov 2011 23:05

Hi

I have replaced stock OM 5E with 2M Blue on my Debut 3 Esprit (Also I'm using speed box 2 SE, acryl platter, phono box 2). I can't understand I think sound is being worse. Totally it's more detailed and clean but bass is poor. Where the bass? It plays about 8 hours.

Is it some problems with tracking? Look photo bellow please.

Point 1 (inner)
Image

Point 1 top
Image

Point 2
Image

Point 2 top
Image
User avatar
sergio_oliva
member
member
 
Posts: 43
Images: 0
Joined: 09 Nov 2011 20:36
Location: Between gutter and the stars...

Russia

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby frenchmon » 11 Nov 2011 02:05

What speakers are you using....do you have stock phono cable...how long have you had the 2M Blue?
User avatar
frenchmon
member
member
 
Posts: 221
Images: 2
Joined: 06 May 2010 23:03
Location: st. louis mo.

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby sergio_oliva » 11 Nov 2011 07:25

What speakers are you using....do you have stock phono cable...how long have you had the 2M Blue?


My conf:

1. Speakers - ProAc Response 2.5 clone
2. Amp - music hall 25.2
3. Pre Amp - Pro-ject Phono Box 2
4. Pro-ject Speed Box 2 SE
5. Interconnect between Pre Amp and Amp - Chord Silver Plus
6. Interconnect between turntable and Pre-Amp (Phono cable?) - stock, can't be changed
7. Cable between speakers and amp - Chord Carnival Plus

I have 2m about 1 week and I play it about 8 hours
User avatar
sergio_oliva
member
member
 
Posts: 43
Images: 0
Joined: 09 Nov 2011 20:36
Location: Between gutter and the stars...

Russia

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby kalypso » 11 Nov 2011 11:24

Check wiring at the cartridge. Maybe wires are inverted. Follow the color code on the cartridge ande you should be right.

regards kalypso
kalypso
 

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby sergio_oliva » 11 Nov 2011 21:24

Wiring is ok
User avatar
sergio_oliva
member
member
 
Posts: 43
Images: 0
Joined: 09 Nov 2011 20:36
Location: Between gutter and the stars...

Russia

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby moon unit » 11 Nov 2011 21:49

The bass will fill out over time.

Read this on "The Apple Chap Blog," you can go straight to the section regarding the 2M Blue: http://www.theapplechap.com/TheAppleCha ... _Blue.html
User avatar
moon unit
member
member
 
Posts: 231
Images: 5
Joined: 09 May 2010 02:01
Location: Detroit

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby sergio_oliva » 13 Nov 2011 22:50

I have found something. Input inductance in PhonoBox = 120pF. 2m blue recommended inductance loading = 150-300pF.

Can balance move to bright side (poor bass and bright treble) in this case?
User avatar
sergio_oliva
member
member
 
Posts: 43
Images: 0
Joined: 09 Nov 2011 20:36
Location: Between gutter and the stars...

Russia

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby banerjba » 13 Nov 2011 23:49

I run a Blue on my 2Xperience. The cart has a lot more treble detail which is too bright from my Technics1200 or Rega p5. I prefer the Red stylus which has a more normal balance and deep bass. On my Project 2Xperience though the Blue works great. Must be the better arm. My guess is that the steel arm on your table is not a great match. A Red stylus will sound better IMO. My Debut has Acry It, Speedbox as well. Btw i assume you got the heavier counterweight when you swapped carts. Otherwise the Blue will not work properly.
User avatar
banerjba
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 803
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 17:25
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby moon unit » 13 Nov 2011 23:58

sergio_oliva wrote:I have found something. Input inductance in PhonoBox = 120pF. 2m blue recommended inductance loading = 150-300pF.

Can balance move to bright side (poor bass and bright treble) in this case?


When you add the loading of the phono cables you are well into range. Have you tried upping the tracking force close to the mazimum recommended?

Have never heard the 2M Blue, but have read opinions that it tends towards the bright side as banerjba stated above.
User avatar
moon unit
member
member
 
Posts: 231
Images: 5
Joined: 09 May 2010 02:01
Location: Detroit

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby Henley » 14 Nov 2011 16:02

Hi Sergio, can you please take a photo from the side of the tone arm with the stylus sitting still on a record?
User avatar
Henley
member
member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 14:53
Location: Didcot, UK

Great Britain

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby frenchmon » 14 Nov 2011 16:05

Well the Blue needs some time to break in. I ran my Red on a 2.1 and had lot of bright detail. I continued to run it and after about 50 hours it started to settle down. Give it some time and it should settle.
User avatar
frenchmon
member
member
 
Posts: 221
Images: 2
Joined: 06 May 2010 23:03
Location: st. louis mo.

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby Henley » 14 Nov 2011 16:10

frenchmon wrote:Well the Blue needs some time to break in. I ran my Red on a 2.1 and had lot of bright detail. I continued to run it and after about 50 hours it started to settle down. Give it some time and it should settle.

Running in will give more agility, less harshness and a tighter bass but I think the problem here may be geometry (hence asking for the last photo).
User avatar
Henley
member
member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 18 Jul 2011 14:53
Location: Didcot, UK

Great Britain

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby sergio_oliva » 16 Nov 2011 21:00

Hi all! Many thanks for yours answers friends! I have one good news and two bad :)

Good:
I'm having more bass after 30 hours. I will be hope get it more after 50h

Bad 1:
Treble is more sweet now but it stay on bright side

Bad 2:
When I changed track angle I have broke screw thread of mounting in 2m blue. Don't know what to do now...



I run a Blue on my 2Xperience. The cart has a lot more treble detail which is too bright from my Technics1200 or Rega p5. I prefer the Red stylus which has a more normal balance and deep bass. On my Project 2Xperience though the Blue works great. Must be the better arm. My guess is that the steel arm on your table is not a great match. A Red stylus will sound better IMO. My Debut has Acry It, Speedbox as well. Btw i assume you got the heavier counterweight when you swapped carts. Otherwise the Blue will not work properly.


Is steel (aluminium) arm so critical? :?

moon unit wrote:The bass will fill out over time.

Read this on "The Apple Chap Blog," you can go straight to the section regarding the 2M Blue: http://www.theapplechap.com/TheAppleCha ... _Blue.html


Thanks. It is very interesting for me. I have played about 30 hours I think and I have really more bass now. Waiting for 50 hours :)

When you add the loading of the phono cables you are well into range. Have you tried upping the tracking force close to the mazimum recommended?


Yes I trying maximum force and I don't hear any deeply changes. I have question. How can I add loading? I should use any special devices (another than Phono stage with changeable inductance on 47KOm) or may be I should get solderer and do it myself? Could you take me any practice decision?

Henley wrote:Hi Sergio, can you please take a photo from the side of the tone arm with the stylus sitting still on a record?


Here more photo.

Point 1 (closer to center)
Image

Image

Image


Point 2
Image

Image

Image

Arm
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
sergio_oliva
member
member
 
Posts: 43
Images: 0
Joined: 09 Nov 2011 20:36
Location: Between gutter and the stars...

Russia

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby Alec124c41 » 17 Nov 2011 04:01

It looks like it needs a slight twist clockwise (from top).

Cheers,
Alec
Keep them spinning.
User avatar
Alec124c41
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
 
Posts: 15285
Images: 56
Joined: 28 Oct 2002 04:24
Location: Toronto, Canada

Canada

Re: Debut 3 Esprit + Ortofon 2M Blue

Postby kalypso » 17 Nov 2011 04:24

You can add capacity with the following method:

Get two RCA (cinch-) jacks (one for each channel) and solder a capacitor of the desired value from the plus to the minus pole of it.

Plug an y-adaptor into the phono-input of your phono-pre, one for each channel. Into one jack of each y-adaptor you plug the connector coming from the deck for one channel, on the other jack the plug with the capacitor.

Now the capacity is added.

But i have my doubts that this is necesarry and helpful. You have got 120 pF in the phono-pre plus the cable capacity, wich is usually in the range of 150 pF with standard cables. With this both values added, you are be in the optimum range for the cartridge.

Better pe patient and first wait until 50 hours or more of running-in-time are over.

As alec says too, it seems that the cartridge should be turned a bit clockwise, but this varies from photo to photo.

regards kalypso
kalypso
 

Next

Return to Music Hall / Pro-Ject