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Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

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Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby troyvogel » 12 Jul 2012 17:58

This is my first ever forum post. I have been reading pages and pages worth of useful information you all have shared over the years quietly for months now. I want to thank you all for sharing so openly and freely and constructively. I am in awe of this forum.

It is with some regret that my first ever post starts on a low note as I have a gripe. "Oh no here we go!"

You see I really am a newb in terms of Vinyl. I have been listening to music for decades but I started buying music in mid eighties (37yo here) and started out with CDs and kept going with those. I had played Lps at home when I was younger but I did not know too much about sound reproduction etc.

Recently I have developed an interest in vinyl due to several reasons -- I do hear a difference on some of the Telarcs, Phillips recordings of Classical music pieces I have listened to as CDs. There is a difference, a pleasant one at that. Also second hand lps for classical music are dirt cheap and come in an insane variety of composers and usually have a lot of the obscure pieces no longer played / recorded by classical music orchestras due to funding etc.

I have a Walker CJ55 turntable that needs some TLC in terms of a better tonearm(it came with an AR tonearm -- not the original tonearm) and probably a better cartridge as I have an Ortofon OM Pro installed for now, and a Denon DP-47F that I love so much I could squeeze it into pieces but it has an average AT cartridge (less than $100 dollars).

Long story short, I have been playing records, cleaning records, crate diving for a few months now. Lately I started buying NEW records from Amazon thinking YEY Vinyl comeback YEY! New records will sound GREAT!

Well I have been much disappointed. I bought Gotye's new album, Fiona Apple's new album and Adele's new album -- thinking great I already love these artists and albums, it will be wonderful to hear what else listening to them on vinyl will reveal.

First off all three albums have amazing artwork and covers. So kudos for that to the factory. But the excitements ends there and turns into disappointment fast as all THREE albums came with lps that have Permanent finger marks and other production artefacts on the lp surface that cleaning with the Spin Clean will not remove. Furthermore the sonically speaking I think the sound of these albums is kind of flat, uninspired and nothing special. It sounds like the CD album was simply transferred to lp with no effort to utilize the capabilities of lp -- read: no remastering.

I could have forgiven the second one, no remastering, if the lps arrived in good condition and played without surface noise.

I also could have forgiven say an album that sounded great for the first 50 plays but then degraded fast because we're in the age of Made in China.

Is there a factory full of kids in China producing these substandard records and selling them at twice the CD prices on Amazon? I am so confused. When did selling such crap become acceptable?

In contrast, I bought a sealed copy of Ray of Light by Madonna (don't you laugh at me LOL), and opened it (I know so evil to open a sealed record), and played it, it sounds AMAZING. Exactly what I was looking for. It sounded great! So I know it is not my system.

Is there any way I can look up the factories that make these albums and avoid the bad ones? Can anyone record a contemporary record company that's still producing records that are worth buying or shall I just give up and go back to my local second hand lp store and be glad that records were pressed right at some point and are available for me to buy second hand?
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby Rob998 » 12 Jul 2012 18:54

troyvogel wrote:In contrast, I bought a sealed copy of Ray of Light by Madonna (don't you laugh at me LOL), and opened it (I know so evil to open a sealed record), and played it, it sounds AMAZING. Exactly what I was looking for. It sounded great! So I know it is not my system.


Why? Records are meant to be played, not stashed away, hermetically sealed, forever unable to release their music to the world. What a sad existence for a record!

I've bought a few new release LPs & have been very pleased with them: Lana Del Rey - Born to Die, Rumer - Boys Don't Cry, The Vaccines - What Did You Expect, Florence & The Machine - Ceremonials and quite a few more. All very nice pressings with great production. I have also bought a few re-issues e.g the recent Pink Floyd reissues (DSOTM, WYWH, The Wall), the Smiths - Meat is Murder, Strangeways Here We Come & The Queen is Dead, the 40th anniversary edition of Bowie- The Rise & Fall of Ziggy Stardust.All excellent. The only slight let down has been a triple disc re-issue of The Who- Who's Next which sounds a little dull compared to my brothers original release.

I'm surprised at your experience with the Gotye & Adele LPs, as they are considered to be very good vinyl releases, or at least the UK/EU pressings are. I can't really make a fully informed comment though, as I baulked at paying £30+ for Gotye (bought the CD instead for £6...), and Adele doesn't really do it for me, so haven't bought either of her LPs.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby Audio_Man » 12 Jul 2012 19:05

Sorry to hear of your disappointment with vinyl. For a start it is not made in China ! I'm guessing you have US pressed vinyl which I generaly find inferior quality to European unless fron RTI or QRP which are audiophile quality plants. The EU Adele pressing is quiet and is regarded as being much better than the CD. I wouldn't worry about marks that don't sound as they are common on a lot of pressings. In fact I have old US pressings that suffer from this so it's not an entirely new problem. Flat sound can be usualy attributed to some modern digital recordings unfortunately.

I am afraid with standard releases vinyl pressing quality is variable and not related necessarily to price paid. Though expensive the current MFSL output is very consistent in quality as are the 180/140g releases from Warner Brothers. Also would recommend MOV for reissues of 80's and 90's titles. You should also try reissue labels such as Analogue productions, Friday Music, Speakers Corner and Sundazed.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby danieldust » 12 Jul 2012 19:08

Sorry that your foray into new vinyl has been so disappointing. Unfortunately, my experience is not dissimilar. I have not bought much new vinyl until recently, and I have gotten my share of warps, non-filled grooves, off center pressings, and just plain old crappy quality vinyl. I don't have an answer for you about how to research quality on new releases. Some of the more specialized audiophile labels have a good reputation for quality pressings, but when it comes to new releases by high profile artists on major labels, I have a feeling that it's largely a game of chance and the deck is stacked against the discriminating consumer. It's likely going to be more about quantity than quality. I'm sure several people will come on here and say something to contradict this, but there are enough horror stories out there about new vinyl that I am quite wary of it myself.

I will say that my new copy of Ornette Coleman's The Shape of Jazz to Come on Rhino was surprisingly good quality in all respects. I have heard other people say very nice things about Rhino vinyl too, so put Rhino on your list as one to trust.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby robsanderson » 12 Jul 2012 19:31

Audio_Man wrote:I'm guessing you have US pressed vinyl which I generaly find inferior quality to European unless fron RTI or QRP which are audiophile quality plants.



Ahhh, thats what I've been finding. I've bought a few records from the states and I've been quite disappointed by them to the point I only buy from the UK. My first was a copy of radiheads in rainbows thet crackles all the way through and I just bought a copy of Mazzy Star 'so tonight' from the states and it sounds worse than my mp3 copy, totally flat instruments too far back in the mix and the background noise is shocking! Why bother making such sub standard products?
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby raphaelmabo » 12 Jul 2012 20:43

Sorry to hear about your issues.
I haven't had your experiences. My latest purchase of new vinyl was the Saint Etienne album "Words and music", pressed in Holland. Sounds good. I also have albums with Erasure (a couple of 12" remixes), Pet-Shop-Boys "Pop Art" 3 LP-singles collection and a few other new LP's. No problems with surface noise. So from my experience this isn't a common problem, but I notice that you live in the US and the records may be badly pressed over there? All of my new vinyl purchases are made in Europe.

Ps. No need to feel ashamed over a Madonna record, she rocks... :) Ds.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby fscl » 12 Jul 2012 22:02

troyvogel wrote:This is my first ever forum post. I have been reading pages and pages worth of useful information you all have shared over the years quietly for months now. I want to thank you all for sharing so openly and freely and constructively. I am in awe of this forum.

......snippage........

Well I have been much disappointed. I bought Gotye's new album, Fiona Apple's new album and Adele's new album -- thinking great I already love these artists and albums, it will be wonderful to hear what else listening to them on vinyl will reveal.

First off all three albums have amazing artwork and covers. So kudos for that to the factory. But the excitements ends there and turns into disappointment fast as all THREE albums came with lps that have Permanent finger marks and other production artefacts on the lp surface that cleaning with the Spin Clean will not remove. Furthermore the sonically speaking I think the sound of these albums is kind of flat, uninspired and nothing special. It sounds like the CD album was simply transferred to lp with no effort to utilize the capabilities of lp -- read: no remastering.

I could have forgiven the second one, no remastering, if the lps arrived in good condition and played without surface noise.

I also could have forgiven say an album that sounded great for the first 50 plays but then degraded fast because we're in the age of Made in China.

.....snippage......

Is there any way I can look up the factories that make these albums and avoid the bad ones? Can anyone record a contemporary record company that's still producing records that are worth buying or shall I just give up and go back to my local second hand lp store and be glad that records were pressed right at some point and are available for me to buy second hand?


Welcome to VE..... :)

Glad you are enjoying vinyl playback except for your recent experience with Amazon "virgin" purchases..... :oops:

Most of what I've read here about Amazon has been pretty postive, except for some sketchy packing:

viewtopic.php?t=27775

However, as Amazon has been at this for a while, I'm sure they getting returns :-k :-k from customers :-k :-k where "permanent finger prints and sonic artifacts" are unacceptable.... :-k :-k and not quite the experience of UK customers:

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=46679

And thinking they may be re-shrinking the returns and sending them out again...... :-k :-k as this probably happened lots when there was only vinyl...... :-k :-k

Since the vinyl resurgence, the new LPs I do purchase have been "fingerprint free" and quite good sonically, There are quite a few places that I am near to that offer new vinyl. I try to support them so I have not yet purchased from Amazon. Caught this today on the radio:

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/07/12/the-amazon-economy

This topic used to be a sticky and a fairly good repository for substandard new issues:

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15708&start=150

As it's no longer a sticky, it's been a while since someone has posted. What is Amazon's return policy..... :-k :-k... is it possible to get replacements..... :-k :-k New vinyl is pretty costly especially compared to well taken care of used LPs...... :shock:

HTH

Fred
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby robsanderson » 12 Jul 2012 22:09

Why not try importing some European vinyl? I'm guessing it will end up being quite expensive, its cheaper for us to import US vinyl than buy UK vinyl but in my experience the difference in sound quality is night and day.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby troyvogel » 13 Jul 2012 22:24

Thanks for all the informative responses. I have simmered down some since yesterday.

I want to start off with "thanks for listening" first as I re-read my post and I sound very agitated. And I was quite upset indeed.

Our european friends are right I am suspecting the production in the USA may be substandard and there may be a case where returns are getting re-shrinkwapped and sent back out.

I hate returning things, I do and I rarely return things. I think I am going to go ahead and send back all three albums to amazon as a first step to send a message and ask for an exchange. If what they send out is the same old news then we will know there's a problem as a whole with the production over here.

The fingerprints were not from shipping I assure you. They were not dust prints, they were melted into the vinyl where the shiny surface was dulled by either pressure or chemical process or both. Amazon actually does a good job of shipping LPs, they put them in the standard Mail cardboard sleeve and THEN put the whole thing into a larger box with loose paper padding. Now what UPS does to these boxes is a whole different story. (in the back of my mind I imagine the UPS warehouses to be a place where workers play football and soccer with the boxes and hump them until all corners have been worn off -- but like I said it's my twisted imagination.)

In one LP there was actually a vinyl flow mark... as in as the vinyl cake was pressed and melted into the lp shape, it made streaks that you can see in plain light on the surface of the lp.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding. If I am playing it and it is not sounding right when older records of several different record companies sound fine on two separate turntables then I feel confident it is not me, it is them.

I am also hitting the local stores but they're not carrying sealed new records, they're mostly used lp stores -- don't get me wrong I found countless gems in these stores. I will keep researching, I am in a smaller town but Austin is still a booming intellectual city with lots of surprises so who knows.

I will also research and look up more UK and EU pressed records and see if I can get hold of one or two to compare. Thanks to those that shared company names and records they recently purchased.

And let's end it on a good note, I was listening to ANDREAS VOLLENWEIDER ~ CAVERNA MAGICA on lp -- an artist I knew nothing about until very recently. His album was singing through my speakers and I was lost in the music. So aside from my brief negative experience, I am here to stay in the vinyl world until the world stops spinning :-)

PS. Also thanks for the welcome message and also thanks to Rob998 who made me feel better about opening sealed records. I was feeling guilty but you're right what's the point of having them otherwise?
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby bubba45 » 13 Jul 2012 22:55

I find that on the whole the percentage of good quality 'new' vinyl is actually higher then on vintage vinyl.
Most of the 'new' stuff (last 8 years since I started buying records again) has been very very good and to be honest it has seemed to be getting better over the last couple of years.
Recently I have bought all 3 Laura Marling releases, James Vincent McMorrow, Pink Floyd WYWH,Paul Weller, Adele, Cinematic Orchestra, all of Iron & Wine's releases, all of Sun Kil Moon's LP's, Ryan Adams, PJ Harvey, Anthony & The Johnsons, a couple of Van Morrison reissues and loads more. They have all been excellent quality soundwise. True a few have been warped a little but so are a few of the old charity shop finds.
Some have been US imports and generally of a very good quality but a couple of questionable production it's true.

It's a shame you have not had such a good experience and maybe there is something about the quality of USA mastering / production although the SubPop & Caldo Verde pressings have been absolutely superb quality on all fronts to be honest.

Stick with it because vinyl is worth it.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby fscl » 14 Jul 2012 02:38

troyv, don't know where you are however, Wurst Buy used to have new sealed vinyls but the selection has dwindled since their financial problems..... :? If there is an Urban Outfitters near you, they have a pretty good selection.... :)

My local UO have several copies of all 3 of the LPs in store that you've named in your OP. IIRC, the UO is a bit higher in a price check against Amazon. Don't know if you are a shipping free member. If I purchase from UO, I always try to pick the best looking one.

Good luck.

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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby megatrends » 14 Jul 2012 07:27

I think there is too much be made out of what part of the world makes the best vinyl.

I have an English re-issue of a Queen album on 180 gram and it sounds awful. I have US releases that sound brilliant and some that do not.

Maybe I just have not heard enough to be certain but so far it really seems like a crap shoot no matter what and where you buy something.
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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby kelvinMunson » 14 Jul 2012 10:30

megatrends wrote:I think there is too much be made out of what part of the world makes the best vinyl.

I have an English re-issue of a Queen album on 180 gram and it sounds awful. I have US releases that sound brilliant and some that do not.

Maybe I just have not heard enough to be certain but so far it really seems like a crap shoot no matter what and where you buy something.


You're probably right that you haven't heard enough.

How many Japanese pressings do you have ? I think you will find unanimous agreement that they are far and away the best quality.

Asfar as UK/European products go, I have recently bought new pressings by Pink Floyd, King Crinson, Tangerine Dream, Squackett, Conrad Schnitzler, Foo Fighters, The Who, The Stones; all were excellent. Maybe I just hit lucky.
Regards

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Re: Horrible Quality New Release Pressings

Postby danieldust » 14 Jul 2012 19:48

bubba45 wrote:
It's a shame you have not had such a good experience and maybe there is something about the quality of USA mastering / production although the SubPop & Caldo Verde pressings have been absolutely superb quality on all fronts to be honest.


I sent my copy of Fleet Foxes' Helplessness Blues (on Sub Pop) back to Elusive Disc due to noise issues in one channel on the first track. Just today I was talking to an employee at a nearby high-end stereo shop who said he had the same problem with the same album.

kelvinMunson wrote:Conrad Schnitzler


One of the new Bureau B reissues of the Red and/or Blue albums? I bought the Blue one on CD since it had bonus tracks, but the Bureau B LPs I do have seem to be of very good quality.

I will concur with those who say US vinyl tends to be inferior to UK, German or Japanese vinyl, but my experience with this comparison is mostly on vintage stuff. I don't think I have much new vinyl pressed anywhere but in the US. The problems I have had with new vinyl have far exceeded the severity of problems that typical US pressings from the '70s and '80s used to have. Regarding the new stuff, I'm talking unplayable in some cases.
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