Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

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Vinyl and Tube Dude Chill out please!!!

It`s just a Hobbie, in life there will always be product`s more expensive or cheap, or someone will have something we will never be able to afford, so what!!

Some people love 180g vinyl great, some people don`t that`s fine, some people say Beatles are the best band in the world, some people say Pink Floyd, depending on our taste`s.

I understand your concern`s to a point, but shop around for a cheaper deal i do, enjoy your music and system, let`s put a stop to this thread!!!

[Zaimejs]

I'm resurrecting this old thread (not that old) because I finally purchased a new 180g album. I went to the record store with one specific purchase in mind. I wanted Norah Jones' new album, Little Broken Hearts.

I found one copy, but it was a 180g double vinyl with only 2-3 songs per side. Is this normal of the newer albums? Is it a marketing trick to make you think that the sound quality will be higher because there are less songs per side... or is that just silly?

It sounded very good... aside from the pops and clicks... very static prone white vinyl... but I don't know if it sounded better than a normal LP.

I asked if they had it available on a standard LP, but the record guy said "Nope, that's it."

The biggest negative, of course, is that you have to get up and change the record after only a two-three songs. And they didn't make it so it's 1/4:2/3 so you can set the autochanger to drop in order.

Meh.

[kelvinMunson]

Does Norah play at 33 or 45rpm ?

The most recent Foo Fighters albums, for example, have only 3 tracks each side because they play at 45rpm and, at that speed, the music wont fit nicely on two sides of an LP. They are pressed with the aim of achieving the best audio quality, which they do.

[Zaimejs]

33 rpm. Standard 33 lp. So I don't know if there are more grooves per song or if it is just some kind of a gimmick.

[kelvinMunson]

I guess really the question is, how long each side lasts, rather than how many songs. You could have 3x six minute songs per side, which add up to typical LP length.

[Zaimejs]

NOpe...

http://www2.norahjones.com/discography

9 songs... about 3 minutes each. 30+ minutes on 4 sides.

I didn't find the download card either

[Audio_Man]

Simple reason for 4 sides is the grooves can be less crammed for better sound quality. Usualy this is done because modern albums made for CD are longer resulting in it being impossible to fit on a single LP without compromising quality. Strangely the Norah Jones' LP has 12 tracks of only 40+ minutes so it could have fitted on a single LP.

[kelvinMunson]

Simple reason for 4 sides is the grooves can be less crammed for better sound quality. Usualy this is done because modern albums made for CD are longer resulting in it being impossible to fit on a single LP without compromising quality.

That method is clearly understood, but doesn't apply in the case of Norah, since 7.5 minutes a side is a bit of an overkill !

[Audio_Man]

Simple reason for 4 sides is the grooves can be less crammed for better sound quality. Usualy this is done because modern albums made for CD are longer resulting in it being impossible to fit on a single LP without compromising quality.

That method is clearly understood, but doesn't apply in the case of Norah, since 7.5 minutes a side is a bit of an overkill !

I did say it's a bit strange - It's actualy 10 mins per side. Zamejs has got his tracks/times wrong.

[EdAInWestOC]

Disinformation is a terrible thing. Just because we do not understand a thing doesn't mean it does not exist. Sometimes it doesn't but in the case of record weight there is a theoretical difference.

The idea is the same thing that causes you to clamp a LP to a playing surface or pay extra money for a peripheral ring weight. You couple the LP to a playing surface to help eliminate surface vibrations on the LP playing surface. That is supposed to effect the imaging but there are some gotchas.

Your rig has to high enough quality to make a difference...first. If you cannot tell the difference between a high quality japanese pressing of a great recorded LP and the same LP from a record club then the whole subject is lost on you.

If you can tell the difference then the heavier vinyl is supposed to surpress those surface vibrations that muck up imaging. The mass of the vinyl is harder to get vibrating. The same theory is put to the test on high mass plinths.

The coupling of the LP to the playing surface mentioned above is an attempt to use the mass of the platter coupled to the mass of the vinyl to try and make one rigid playing mass. A lot of people pay good money for record clamps, the aforementioned weight rings and some have vacuum hold platters to do the same thing using that approach.

I have to add something here. The UHQR wasn't an attempt to get more shipping. I apologize for offending the poster who wrote that...but that is just plain stupid. It was, and still is, the all out assault on the best quality pressing possible using vinyl as a medium. Many record companies who care have tried the same and record collectors recognize and value pressings of such quality.

The Classic Records 200gm SVP profile LPs took a page from UHQRs and used the flat profile and very heavy vinyl to attempt the same sort of quality. The profile of the LP was also an attempt to maximize imaging. Normal LPs are actually a downhill slope where careful azimuth adjustments are somewhat mitigated. Azimuth is important to guess what...imaging.

Other LPs have used heavy weight vinyl and a relatively flat profile. This is not rocket science and well understood. The UHQR used all of this plus a 2.5 minute pressing cycle on specially setup dedicated presses at JVC/Japan all on JVC's Super Vinyl. They aren't bad.

OK, back to our program...the flat profile eliminates the sloped playing surface, the azimuth adjustment is constant across the playing surface and maximizes the imaging. If you have the flat surface, with constant relative azimuth and a mass high enough that surface vibrations are mitigated you have done all you can to maximize your imaging.

If you don't care about quality imaging that's OK. JaS sorry if I get a little scratchy when I read stupidity. There is way too much of it on both sides of the Atlantic.

Ed

[kelvinMunson]

Ed, isn't it true that even 180 gram discs are not completely flat, since they should comply with the RIAA dimensional standards, (http://www.aardvarkmastering.com/riaa.htm), and therefore there is a minimum gradiant angl especified ?

[EdAInWestOC]

Ed, isn't it true that even 180 gram discs are not completely flat, since they should comply with the RIAA dimensional standards, (http://www.aardvarkmastering.com/riaa.htm), and therefore there is a minimum gradiant angl especified ?

Yes it is. Up to now the only totally flat LPs I am aware of are the MoFi UHQRs and the Classic Records 200gm SVP LPs. I am no expert on the subject but it caused problems for Classic when they had their 200gm SVPs pressed at RTI and MoFi gave up after 8 UHQRs.

I have never heard why MoFi gave up on the UHQR but it would be interesting to find out. The UHQR was stopped long before the original MoFi ran out of steam as a company.

Ed

[tomsdubs]

180g is a total marketing ploy, don't get me wrong i love how substantial they feel in the hand but as for sound better? Can't say that is the case. Mastering and production quality is what decides that assuming they don't try and cram too much music per side.

One good example was the Deftones reissues, '180g heavyweight vinyl' they said. Well let me tell you there is no way they are 180g, outright lie. All marketing, same goes for re-mastered. As soon as i read that it is a byword for passing and finding an original.

[kelvinMunson]

180g is a total marketing ploy, don't get me wrong i love how substantial they feel in the hand but as for sound better? Can't say that is the case. Mastering and production quality is what decides that assuming they don't try and cram too much music per side.

One good example was the Deftones reissues, '180g heavyweight vinyl' they said. Well let me tell you there is no way they are 180g, outright lie. All marketing, same goes for re-mastered. As soon as i read that it is a byword for passing and finding an original.

First off you say "Mastering and production quality is what decides ", ie the quality of the final product depends upon the mastering. I think it also depends on the quality of the vinyl used and the process controls in place... amongst other things.

and then you go on to state that re-mastering is a marketing ploy.

So what are you saying ?

and out of interest, how much did your Deftones re-issue weigh ?