Platter Mat Shootout!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **snfrosten** » 06 Jul 2011 02:18

A.Wayne wrote:Hi Guys,

I'm using an audioquest sorbothane mat , came with the table many moons ago, how does it compare to the M/S cork mat ...?

Regards,

I have one, worst mat in the collection. Deadens the sound so much there's very little bass left and not particular very musical.
Try a cork and some of the other cheaper mats to get an idea of the effect a mat has on the music. Each mat sounds different and one will fit your system best.

by **Wire Nut** » 06 Jul 2011 11:54

I have one, worst mat in the collection. Deadens the sound so much there's very little bass left and not particular very musical.

I have read this in several mat posts about the sorbothane. I never wanted to try it because of what others said. I don't think they even make them any more?

by **pivot** » 06 Jul 2011 13:59

The Audioquest mats are still around.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/9584/ ... and_Clamps

I have not tried one either based on the lack luster reviews I have seen.

EDIT - I actually read the page I linked to above and see "Sorry, this Product is no longer available."

So I am the same reliable source of information I always have been.

by **waynefi** » 08 Jul 2011 03:58

Wire Nut wrote:Panman, I visited George's site some time ago (actually looking for a motor) and then again today after your reply- all I could find for product was the Dandy cleaner. I saw the mat here today: http://www.sleevetown.com/turntable-accessories.shtml
So I asked Anthony about it, this is what he replied:
"When we were tossing around theories on mat construction and what works and what doesn’t we decided on and experimented with cork on cork, cork on lead, etc. Both mats like the original lead mat worked great and out preformed all other mats we compared them to. George had decided to manufacture one type which is the cork on cork and I the other which was the lead on cork. There are very different types of cork out there, some with quality rubber content and a lot with junk filler and the key is to find the right cork and the right vender who has the right cork. On the lead, obviously the lead is expensive and takes some time and is a process to prepare and manufacture. So each mat has its own unique characteristics and price range. The mats used to be sold through our dealer network at double of what they sell for now, so selling direct cuts out any additional "overhead" and gives the customer a great deal on a great platter mat"

It does not sound like he spoke of that specific mat, but the lead and lead/cork version.

I just talked to George Merrill about this mat. He said with the issues with getting and using lead these days, he experimented with different rubbers and cork. This mat consists of 2 different rubbers and cork. He claims that listening comparisons showed that this final combo was similar to the lead mat. So I trusted him and bought one from Sleevecity. I have not tried it yet.

by **33.3rpm** » 08 Jul 2011 20:17

Sorry, but I can't help myself...

I have never enjoyed the flavor of Kool-Aid that everyone seems to enjoy so much here.

Less is more and this is what makes the AR so enduring. These guys really knew what they were doing back in the day.

Any mod that alters the original parameters of these turntables is a step in the wrong direction IMO. Different is not better by any stretch of the imagination. With that said, if you are still with me, get yourself the 5mm Achromat and enjoy your AR. It will sound like your just threw down another $500. on your phono cartridge.

No flexible overdamped subchassis for my AR. Ditto on overly stiff springs and mass loading above the plinth! Bo hiss on heavy tonearms as well.

Now. I feel so much better.

by **pivot** » 08 Jul 2011 20:54

33.3rpm wrote:......Any mod that alters the original parameters of these turntables is a step in the wrong direction....

With that said, if you are still with me, get yourself the 5mm Achromat and enjoy your AR......

So consistancy is not your strong suit is it?

also...

"No flexible overdamped subchassis for my AR"

If you mean the Merrill subchassis, have you held one in your hands and tried to "flex" it? Good luck with that.

by **gkimeng** » 08 Jul 2011 21:39

33.3rpm wrote:Any mod that alters the original parameters of these turntables

...which included design to a cost target.

The AR turntable design was based on the aim of bringing broadcast quality record play down to average consumer prices, but the broadcast standards of the era were actually fairly low compared to the best reproduction possible today...or even 20 years ago. The stock table was certainly "good enough" for the vast majority of its original buyers and for many of us still is, but that doesn't mean you can't try other things. And in the case of mats, since you can't buy anything new today that is an exact replacement for the "original parameters" of the stock part, you really don't have any other choice.

by **33.3rpm** » 08 Jul 2011 21:42

The 5mm Achromat is equal weight to the OEM felt mat. Most users can accommodate any arm height adjustment.

It is doubtful my consistancy will ever align from your perspective.

Happy listening!

by **snfrosten** » 09 Jul 2011 01:38

33.3rpm wrote:Sorry, but I can't help myself...

I have never enjoyed the flavor of Kool-Aid that everyone seems to enjoy so much here.

Less is more and this is what makes the AR so enduring. These guys really knew what they were doing back in the day.

Any mod that alters the original parameters of these turntables is a step in the wrong direction IMO. Different is not better by any stretch of the imagination. With that said, if you are still with me, get yourself the 5mm Achromat and enjoy your AR. It will sound like your just threw down another $500. on your phono cartridge.

No flexible overdamped subchassis for my AR. Ditto on overly stiff springs and mass loading above the plinth! Bo hiss on heavy tonearms as well.

Now. I feel so much better.

Nothing wrong with making something good better :wink:

[img][img]http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/snfrosten/IMG_5586-1.jpg[/img][/img]

by **pivot** » 09 Jul 2011 03:19

33.3rpm wrote:The 5mm Achromat is equal weight to the OEM felt mat. Most users can accommodate any arm height adjustment.

XA and XB were OEM'ed with a particularly "icky" foam mat that goes all ewy gooey with a decade or more of age.

A nice original or restored dead stock AR is very nice BUT....

Springs sag, motors go noisy or just die, main bearings wear out. My modded AR AX would have been landfill fodder years ago with out fresh parts. Might as well be better parts.

by **33.3rpm** » 09 Jul 2011 20:57

Absolutely beautiful.

No doubt about it, Marc is one of the good guys out there. He'll be the 1st one to tell you that + 3lbs. of weight on the subchassis will enable the Linn springs to work at their proper response/filter range.

Modding is highly encouraged. I just feel keeping the original strengths yield superior results. It is amazing what these tables are capable of!

by **gkimeng** » 09 Jul 2011 21:10

Classic AR mats were a vinyl foam. The second generation models used neoprene foam. Felt was never a stock material, at least not in the US.

Vinyl foam is unobtanium today. You can get neoprene, if you don't mind having one side emblazoned with someone's logo.

I have an achromat and a foam mat originally OEM'd for a Nottingham table. Both are ok. I'm one of those who doesn't hear much difference between mats as long as they don't screw up the suspension or VTA, so I haven't gotten much out of experimentation.

by **Wire Nut** » 31 Jul 2011 01:35

I have a new discovery to share, the lead/cork mat is very heavy and is hard to balance the T-Bar so I started experimenting. I liked the results of the leather so I thought- what if I put thin non-felt under it?
Well I cut out a piece of the thin rug non-skid stuff; it was ugly so I painted the top with vinyl paint and put that under the leather.
The results? 90% of the lead/cork without the weight!!!!!
The bass is there is spades, the mids sparkle, and the highs are as good as any mat.

After listening to it a while I cut a donut in the middle of the rug mat & that helped further. This is a low cost solution for the mat dilemma.

by **PD-Wythe** » 31 Jul 2011 19:47

Sorry, but I will never believe non-subjective tests unless they have been done as double-blind tests. It is far too easy for the mind to play tricks on us. Some of the worlds smartest scientists have fallen into this trap, eg, Cold Fusion.
Also. as far as mats go, if you live in cold, dry climate like I do, the worst mat is the one that collects static charge. It actually blasts holes into your records causing the dreaded 'pops'. Cork is the only way to go.