Zero 100 Automatic Flaw...

[Ernst3510]

Hi,

At last i finished serious working on my Zero 100 to get it (almost) playing like a new one...
The only thing i can't get working correctly is the automatic, everytime it's playing it does it well, only at the end of the record instead the arm is returning to his base, it started again...
I lubricated and cleaned everything, so what is doing this?
Also i found a small yellow wire at the end of the arm and on the inside. Can't find any information on it.It's similar with the cartridge-wiring, only it's cut.
I have another 100 for parts and ther is the same yellow wire...and also cut...
If someone has any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Ernst

[chan1]

Hi ernst3510. Sorry if this is too late to help. Your problem is still a stuck part that has hard grease stopping it from working properly. Please see my thread concerning the cleaning of the parts to free the machine up. It is on page 3 right now started by bob and my posts to that thread are the last posted. Chan1. If you have any further questions, just PM me and I will be glad to explain further. The wire is a different matter. Not sure what end of the tonearm you mean. Above or below? If you can take a pic and post it here that would help. Also, tonearm wire colors are white, green, blue and red. Yellow does not make sense. Again, PM me to get more answers. Regards,Chan

[Ernst3510]

Hi Chan,

Sorry for the delay, (never enough time), thanks for your respons.
Now i'm working agan at the Zero 100.
I did everything clean and lube again, he is alsmost good working except the automatic, it is needing a hand everytime it's starting.
Even on the end of the record when the arm is moving back to his base, the platter is turning slower and stops. I must move the platter a few inches with my hand before the automatic turns off.
If you got any suggestions, you are welcome.
About the yellow wire at the arm: it sems to be a groundwire, but i have no humming or else, sound is perfect.
I have a few pictures of it.

Regards,
Ernst

[chan1]

Hi Ernst3510. Yes I have a few suggestions. It appears as though you do not have a power cord or a separate green colored ground wire on if I am seeing the one pic of the underside correctly. Those would connect to the clear or white plastic part that starts the motor when the proper button is pushed above. So it seems that someone ran a separate yellow ground wire in with the tonearm wires and would probably attach a ground wire there. If you have the original power cord and ground wire, that yellow wire should not be necessary but wait until you are finished to remove it just in case. Anyway, the power cord and ground wire have an attachment to this motor starter white piece and it plugs into it.

Noticed in one pic that all is not cleaned of grease on the underside. You will notice the large metal wheel with teeth on it. Part of the mechanism rides within the groves of this wheel. I see black grease in these groves. It must be removed. You must disassemble the parts above it until you can remove the wheel and clean it with alcohol until it is spotless, apply light oil and reassemble. This is what is holding up the auto. While you are at it, the part that holds the spindle and bearings will need to be removed to do the above procedure anyway so clean it and remove the bearing of all old grease, apply light oil and reassemble when large wheel is clean and oiled and ready to be reassembled.

Also, the very long rod attaches at the tonearm end to a part that pushes another part with a hole in it and a white plastic piece holds it in place. The part with the hole in it must be free to move back and forth via a spring. You can push this piece by hand back and forth. Oil and lube until it moves free. Also, the part that attaches to it and the long rod must be free to move back and forth. Clean and lube until it is free.

Also, the platter wheel that turns the platter must make good contact on the inside of the platter, be in good shape and not worn out and not be slipping. Clean the inside rim of the platter where the wheel makes contact with alcohol until there is a good grip. But I think your problem is the grease on the large wheel. Clean all that and if it still does not work post it here and I will add further help but let me know if it helps, chan

PS:When the auto works, post it and I then will tell you how to oil the motor which is probably slowing down because of lack of lubrication also.

[Ernst3510]

Hi Chan,
Thanks for the reply
Tomorrow, sunday, i give it a try, but i'm very afraid that i can't get it back together, once it's in pieces.
Is there a safe way to do it, i mean not loosen the wrong nuts and bolts? Do you have a certain order to do this ?

Regards,
Ernst

[chan1]

Sorry for being late Ernst. You have several pics of the area so you will be fine. Remove the first 2 parts and then there is the part that connects right next to the tonearm wires to the white plastic. Remove the spring ring and force it up by putting a screw driver between the brass cup and the plastic shaft gently. The shaft and cup need to be cleaned as well. The rest come off easily the the obvious order. Make sure you remove the large wheel completely and clean on both sides of the wheel. Just keep any oil away from the cueing pin. You can see it with the machine up side down just under the cue on the top side. Any oil will ruin the cue forever. Don't worry. It will go back together fine. Also watch out for the tonearm wires as they are very easily damaged. Have a look on page 3 here in the garrard threads stated by bob. there I give pics and show most of what I have told you.

[Ernst3510]

Hi Chan,

Took it all apart, indeed, it was easy to reassemble
The oil in the big wheel was'nt that bad, it was just black painted...
Put some pictures...
I really cleaned everything and put new oil on it, result: now i need only put the table once with my hands
I also lubricated the motor, i was surprised how easy the construction is.
Put also picture here.
As you can see the bearing from the platter was extreme dirty, i cleaned it torough and lubricated it also, in my opinion THIS was the cause, but still...
Now i don't know what to do, i did everything possible...
Cleaned everything, lubricated everything, the arm is moving smoothly, even the platter, so what is doing this?
Maybe i let the Zero rest for a week, that the oil gets everywhere?
Meanwhile i get my old GT55 back in service, it's not the same i know, but...

Regards,
Ernst

[Zaimejs]

wow. Thanks for all those images. My Garrard has a similar problem. I cleaned it, everything works except that when I have my auto dropper spindle installed, it will not stop at the end of the last record. The auto stop works without the auto drop spindle... but not with it. I gave up and just moved on.

[chan1]

Hi Ernst. Still have a few ideas up my sleeve. Don't forget to remove, clean and oil the topside parts under the platter.The part opposite the wheel must be free as well. When pushed with your finger, it must return easily. Clean a lube until free.You did not mention the part the long selector rob attaches to on the tonearm end. It pushes the part with the hole in the side that is spring loaded to return to its normal position after you push on it. That needs to be free along with the part the long rod attaches to. These parts are all mounted on white metal and this tends to swell over time and causes the parts in question to stick. Trust me, if they do not move easily it will hang up the whole system. If they move ok, try this. Near the long rod end at the tonearm end, you will see a piece of white plastic being held down onto the white metal with a retaining ring and a short screw. Remove the ring and leave it off for this test. Loosen the screw to the point that it is just barely held and supporting the short rod. The brass part (below the retaining ring holding the plastic) with the hole in it, might be tight and holding things up. Now try to see if this helps loosen up the platter movement. I had to bend this brass part slightly to free the parts up and no longer had a platter problem.

The motor turns the rubber wheel and that in turn turns the platter. If that is slipping,it will not have enough power to turn all the parts below. Clean the rubber on the wheel with 99% alcohol or dish soap or both. Clean the spindle end of the motor shaft that the wheel touches. Clean the platter ring the wheel rides on. It is possible that your wheel is worn and not making enough contact with the platter and spindle. My outside wheel diameter is exactly 2" inches so yours should be about the same.

The tonearm should ride very easy back and forth. That has a bearing as well below the gray part on the topside where the wires go through. I will tell you how to lube that but only as a last resort.

Now that you think all is lubed, turn the power off to the machine and push manual on and turn the platter by hand several times until it loosens up. It is possible that you may learn by doing this what part below is holding it up.

Trust me, you may say you have cleaned and lubed everything but 1 part along the mechanism is not free and it can and must be found. It took me many hours of cleaning and lubing until I found which part was the problem.

I think it is or near the white plastic part holding the short rod. Free that area up and it will work.

[Ernst3510]

wow. Thanks for all those images. My Garrard has a similar problem. I cleaned it, everything works except that when I have my auto dropper spindle installed, it will not stop at the end of the last record. The auto stop works without the auto drop spindle... but not with it. I gave up and just moved on.

Giving up is NOT an option!

Ernst

[Ernst3510]

Hi Chan,

I just wrote that giving up is no option.
Have all evening, about 5 hours worked on the zero 100.
Did all the points you wrote, still no result.
Last option: selling on Ebay?
I really LOVE this player, had to much hours worked with it, but at the moment i really don't know what to do.
In my opinion: someone had dropped the player ore something else...
Is it possible that some of the mecanic has not the original measures anymore?
I mean is something bent? I have no second zero to compare...
I noticed also a nut on the topside under the platter, when i turn it really tighten, the platter is scratching, so i had loosen it a little, but it is holding the komplete platterbearing together with 2 other big screws. Has to do with the right balance of the platter?
I'm out of suggestions.
You got any left?
Ernst

[chan1]

Hi Ernst. Yes I have.

First. You have a 60Hrz decal held to the platter with adhesive that may have come loose a bit on the edges and is rubbing on the platter wheel and slowing things down. If so, take a hair dryer on high heat and heat the platter and decal up while pushing the decal back towards the platter so it makes good contact again with the platter. Also,make sure you have oiled the platter wheel where it makes contact with the shaft that it turns on also.

Second. Take a pic of the nut or bolt you say is rubbing on the platter. There is something wrong there as the platter wheel is the highest point under the platter and no part sticks up higher. If all parts are assembled correctly, there should be nothing close to making contact with the platter. Platter should not be making contact with the machine surface at any point, obviously, or something is not right. Platter bearing must be re-assembled correctly as this would cause the platter to be higher or lower than it should be. Also, the white metal part that holds the platter shaft and bearing must be assembled properly via the 2 bolts and 1 nut. This is sometimes tricky especially the portion that fits into the machine frame and 2 bolts tighten. The 2 points that receive the 2 bolts above must be pushed up right or the platter shaft will be slanted and create a strain.

Third. All Garrard zero's have blue, red, white and green tonearm wires. What color are yours. It is possible that they were replaced and are too big for the tonearm and are slowing the mechanism down. Garrard tonearm wires are ultra small and have 3 or 4 conductors in each colored wire smaller that a human hair so it creates no friction on the tonearm. They actually move when the tonearm moves within the tube and it would not take much to slow things down if the wire is too big. Also,lets get rid of the yellow wire. Carefully pull it out of the tonearm wire tube. Any hangup here could slow things down. If that yellow wire was used for an extra ground, we will find another way to ground the machine.

Fourth. If necessary, I will show you how to oil the tonearm bearing. Not to hard but we will wait to see if the above procedure's work first.

I have added some pics of the tonearm wire and how small it is. Also, a pic of the tonearm bearing. Don't worry, we will not disassemble as far as I did for the pic.

It is possible that your motor has become weak and will not turn the platter and parts correctly. There are oil retaining cups on each end of the motor shaft that need to be oiled. Fill the cups with oil and reassemble. Can't tell from your pics if you filled the cups with oil. With the platter off and the machine running, grab the motor shaft and see how much pressure it takes to stop it. Don't hold it too long but it should take a fairly good grasp to stop it. If very little is necessary, then your motor is weak. Lubing it will help. See above.

Other than the problem with the platter stopping, does the motor seem to bring the platter to the right speed according to the strobe?

Are there any teeth broken off on the large wheel? Note that there is a spot that has no teeth by design.



http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... 2_68lo.JPG
http://img198.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... 2_35lo.jpg
http://img175.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _235lo.JPG
http://img175.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _179lo.JPG

PS: Let the machine run for about a half an hour until it gets good and warm and then try the shut off and turn on. Also, if you turn the platter by hand with the machine off, the platter should spin for 30-40 seconds or more or something is creating friction and the source eliminated.

PS2: I hope you have an extra pillow and blanket because I am running out of ideas and if we do not make this machine run as new, I will be flying to Antwerp to fix it. Hope you can pick me up at the airport.

[zebra100]

I am reading this with interest. I am about to embark on a complete rebuild of a type 82 when I get back from Italy in a months time. It has never been used in anger, and was last powered up properly over 30 years ago (from what I understand).

This thread will be a great resourse of information.

Thanks,

Chris.

[chan1]

Just thinking out loud now ernst. If your machine is running and playing an lp, and you push the auto stop paddle, how does the machine run then. Does the tonearm lift and return to the rest and the machine turn off without the hesitation as in the start up . Is that operation slow and do you need to turn the platter by hand then? I ask because the same mechanism and amount of power needed are the same. Lets compare the 2 procedures.

Also, am I not correct in thinking that in Belgium you use 220 volt power. What are you using to step it down to 110 volts for the Garrard. Is it possible that there is not enough power to the motor? Your machine appears to be 110 volt, 60Hrz but you tell me! Could be wrong about the above thoughts.

Hope it helps you a little too Zebra!