301 thrift store find

[LPfan]

Iain,

Arm yourself with a good flashlight and magnifying glass, turn the arm over and shine the light up the arm’s tail while looking through the glass. You shall be able to see where that spring is connected and what is gone wrong with that mechanism.

Do not underestimate that arm; I am getting impressive performance with VTF slightly less than 2grams and an elliptical stylus.

Hope this helps

Regards,

LPfan

[iain42]

Iain,

Arm yourself with a good flashlight and magnifying glass, turn the arm over and shine the light up the arm’s tail while looking through the glass. You shall be able to see where that spring is connected and what is gone wrong with that mechanism.

Do not underestimate that arm; I am getting impressive performance with VTF slightly less than 2grams and an elliptical stylus.

Hope this helps

Regards,

LPfan

Ok you guys must be having a positive influence on me!!!!!!!

The mag glass and flashlight did show me that the screw on top may be useless or it merely holds the lot together.


The mystery of the TPA-12 tracking force shall be revealed. I took the bloody thing apart. It is then when I found what I did wrong and how to fix it. The arm is now tracking in at 5grams and I can get it lower as well.



You see I pulled that screw out of the side and it lost its connection with the spring. It has a slot that connects with the inner spring which the other side is attached to the outside of the arm. When the inner screw is slightly adjusted so is the tracking force.

As they say here in america "hot doggie".

[josephazannieri]

Yo Iain:


You have passed the audiophile manhood ritual! You have taken a piece of gear apart and cured a problem! This is a momentous occasion. Good for you! You are working hard on this project and acquiring knowledge and initiative. You may become the TPA-12 guy. You probably know more than anybody now. Don't be afraid to use your knowledge to help others.

I see also that you have exceeded 50 posts and you are a senior member now. Congratulations!

It makes all of us feel good that you are posting and letting us know when we help. We hope that we are doing a service, but we don't know without the feedback and your feedback has been wonderful. The pix are really helpful.

If you are using an M44-7 you probably want to track it at 3 grams. Now you can get there.

Good Luck again.

Joe Z.

[iain42]

Thanks! I was starting to feel like a nuisance. Hopefully all these post will be helpful to others.

I must admit I did do a dance of joy. The girlfriend that I had gone nuts.


I'm bummed out though. I just missed this NIB TPA12. I was outbid at the last minute. Had just put my final bid in the last 5secs and my internet connection glitched on me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150330583615


I picked up a N55E stylus for 15$. Now that I have the tonearm figured out I'll order a 78 cart and perhaps a couple others to try out.


Now I need to find some nice plywood for the plinth. If it doesn't look good I'll just have it veneered. I'd like to get started this month

[Blue Angel]

Congratulations, Iain

It is just amazing that there are such radical differences differences between two arms out of the same 'kitchen' and each bearing the TPA12 nomenclature. I wonder which arm came first - yours with the adjuster along the side, or mine with a thumbwheel on top.

You also have me slightly worried but I have no time now to check things out. This is the little niggle: I was perfectly able to adjust the VTF up or down with the thumbwheel on my arm. I doublechecked the VTF by using my electronic scale and I'm tracking @ 4.5g.

I just find it incredible that there's such a radical difference between these two TPA12's.

From working on mine, I had to take it apart completely as the mazak part of the arm needed a lot of sanding and polishing to get that chrome look.

When putting it together again, I re-packed the bearings with grease and as far as I remember, there are threaded cone-shaped pivots on each side. So, you can try and centre the arm between the pivots and use each screw for fine adjustment. I cannot recall seeing a spring on the side but after Iain's discovery, I think I should take another look.

Nice vintage avatar too, I notice

blue angel

[iain42]

I was adjusting the weight and it got down to 4grams. Any lighter and it floats too much. It seems I should put some grease in the bearings.

There is very little historical info on the many different tpa12s and tpa10s. I have scoured the net. I really wanted that NIB tpa-12 that was on ebay with documentation.




I collected my various carts and headshells. There is a 4 prong Garrard which just won't work and an older larger 3 prong Garrard headshell. Not sure if I can use the larger one.

Here is what I've found.
A GE of some form may be a VR. It appears to be mono.



Here is the large headshell. Can it be used on my arm? My gut says no but it is what the GE cart is in.


Then I found this old stereo shure m7d.

[josephazannieri]

Iain:

There is a quick way to determine if the dark Garrard headshell will work. Measure the distance between the flange where the headshell meets the arm and the line between the holes where the cartridge screws go into the head. Make the same measurement on both heads, and see if it is the same. If it is the same, then the headshell may work on both arms. Now compare the angle between the flange on the headshell and the head shell. If the angle and the measurement are both the same, then the headshells are interchangeable. But that dark one is sho'nuff ugly! White paint, maybe?

The GE cartridge may be an RPX 040 or an RPX 041. The RPX 040 has a 3 mil 78 RPM stylus and the 041 has an old fashioned 1 mil stylus, strictly for mono LP's. You can take a look with a magnifying glass and immediately tell the difference. Both cartridges have instructions here on Vinyl Engine. You will find the info you need right here. My memory is that the RPX tracks about 7 grams. You need to be careful of the loading of the GE cartridges. You can't just Y them out and plug them into a stereo amp. Improper loading will change the frequency response of the cartridge. If you get into the loading issue, it's easy to figure out. The RPX was the prececessor to the VR.

There are 2 styli for that M7D. There is the N3D which tracks about 3-5 grams, and the N21D which tracks about 2 1/2 grams. N21D styli are still available. I have an M7D just like yours with the flat pins. The N21D was the "hot setup" way back when, but it wasn't a great tracker. I thought the M44 was a better cartridge. It also does not have the output of the M44.

By the way, that N55E stylus tracks at way lower pressure than the N44E. About 2 grams, I think.

You say you scoured the TPA 12 off ebay. Did this mean that you acquired it? Great!

I think that your arm may be the later arm. This is because the stylus pressure setting with the little screw, as opposed to the thumbwheel, is also found on the TPA 10, which was the later, more highly adjustable arm. I had a 4HF which had a TPA 12 with a thumbwheel on it, and it would not track much below 4 or 5 grams. I tried a Shure M7D in it, and it would not work properly. Traded it for an Autoslim-P, which didn't look half as cool, but worked way better.

I am not sure what you mean when you say that the arm "floats" too much. I think what it does is that the spring in the arm lifts the arm off the turntable. If the cartridge has insufficient mass, tiny adjustments will make great changes in stylus pressure. It may be that the Shure cartridge is not heavy enough for that arm. You may have to add a little mass inside the headshell to get the arm to behave better and control more easily.

Anyway, glad to hear of more progress. If you want arm recommendations, I have 2 arms on my 301. One is a Thorens TP 13A off a TD 150AB The other is a Grace G-707. The Grace has the advantage of being able to take care of the additional height above the plate that the 301 has. Some other arms require a shim to get enough height to work with the 301. The Thorens has to be jacked up about 3/8 of an inch to work right. I have used the Thorens for many years, though, and it has worked fine. And the price was right. The Grace is flexible enough so that it can be made to fit without going through huge gyrations, though it was somewhat fiddly to get set up right.

Anyway, hope this is helpful.

Good luck from the old constructor.

Joe Z.

[Blue Angel]

Hi gents

Yes, the brown h/shell will work. I have a similar and will send Iain a pic with it fitted to my arm.

Cheers

blue

[LPfan]

Hi Everybody,

Blue has also done a very nice modification to that brown headshell, where he has managed to fix a fourth pin so the headshell and arm can be wired for stereo with separate –ve leads.

Regarding the chronology of the introduction of these arms, AFAIK the TPA10 is a mono arm that appeared first. The TPA12 is a stereo arm that followed later and has three versions.
1) TPA12 on the TypeA auto-changer. This has a counterweight to balance the arm and spring under the armtube to adjust the VTF. (check this photo) http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgur ... n%26sa%3DG
2) TPA12 on the 4HF. This has no counterweight; the spring in the arm’s tail is adjusted by the knurled wheel on the top.
3) TPA12 supplied as arm only, this seems to have two arrangements, either the small screw inside the vertical bearing or the knurled wheel on the top.

I am guilty of adding to the confusion here.

LPfan

[michaelevans60]

Thanks! I was starting to feel like a nuisance. Hopefully all these post will be helpful to others.

This is how we all learn! It's impossible to be a nuisance on here - thats what the forum is for - to try to work out all this stuff!

Keep at it and keep us entertained!

[josephazannieri]

Iain:

I can't help it. I am thinking of "Spaceballs." "Dark Headshell" the evil Phonograffion!

I am not sure that I agree with Blue. I think the headshell he is referring to is that "art deco" brown headshell that was on the old RC88 and a bunch of those old dark brown Garrard players, like the Model T. That one will fit for sure, provided the pin count matches. It's the same size as yours. I am not saying that he is wrong for sure, because I don't know.

That headshell you have is one I have never seen before. It looks bigger, and way older. I would measure and check the angle to be sureit to be sure.

Good luck from the old villain.

Joe Z.

[iain42]

Joe,
I actually need a mono 78 cart so the GE will be fine.

I'll get a couple of the styli you mention to try out. It will be interesting to compare the lot of carts and stylus.

No I did not win the TPA-12 but I tried. Rant the price to $140.

When I said it floats it seems too lite and doesn't sit on the record but floats. The headshell had some paper rolled up on the inside so perhaps this is what the previous owner did to solve the problem. Very interesting.

I''m research the tonearms you mentions. Thanks again.


Blue,
Thanks I'll give it a spin this week.


LPFan
I'm likely not going to try to modify. I'd really fix it then lol. Besides I need a mono cart for 78s.

Thanks for the breakdown on the TPA history as that makes sense. It seems we work it out pretty well no confusion just discussion.


michaelevans60
Thanks and I'll keep this up until I have this puppy running in her own plinth

[iain42]

Iain:

I can't help it. I am thinking of "Spaceballs." "Dark Headshell" the evil Phonograffion!

I am not sure that I agree with Blue. I think the headshell he is referring to is that "art deco" brown headshell that was on the old RC88 and a bunch of those old dark brown Garrard players, like the Model T. That one will fit for sure, provided the pin count matches. It's the same size as yours. I am not saying that he is wrong for sure, because I don't know.

That headshell you have is one I have never seen before. It looks bigger, and way older. I would measure and check the angle to be sureit to be sure.

Good luck from the old villain.

Joe Z.

Actually I have an Old dark brown RC88 with changer. It is where the headshell came from. I just happened to end up with several weird headshels.

[iain42]

I've only made a little progress since the last I posted.


The rubber rejuvenator has been used on the idler wheel.


I'm still looking for some thicker oil than the 85w-140. As mentioned in another thread I'm going to try some straight 120 oil. The speed of my table was perfect until I relubed so oil should be able to get it back to normal. I'm not worried about this at all.


I've noticed sme 3009 II and III prices have been under $350 lately but after much reading they may not be the best choice. Do you guys think the Jelco SA-370H or SA-750D would be a better choice for the Garrardula? Any suggestions much appreciated.


I have some time to get everything needed for the plinth. My brother the carpenter is coming down in Oct/Nov and he is going to cut my plinth. It is going to be multilayered plywood glued together with hide glue. From what I have read 35-40lbs is the recommended mass so that is our goal. Also we are going to have a small cut out board where the tonearm will mount so that it is separated from the top of the plinth which the Garrard is mounted. I'm hoping this will help reduce vibration to the arm. Once cut and glued I'm going to sand, sand, sand, prime, and have it painted British green with a clear coat. If my brother has time we will do rounded edges but only if there is time. This seems to be the culmination of information from what many others have done before me.


My goal is to have a beautiful functioning plinthed 301 by xmas. If you see any problems with my plan for the Garrard please let me know.


Thanks again