Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

the jewel in the crown
Post Reply
A70BBen
senior member
senior member
Posts: 833
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 21:56

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by A70BBen » 06 Dec 2019 08:40

If you don't need the isolation from footfalls, try placing the Zero 100 on heavy furniture and blocking up the chassis in its plinth on small blocks of wood to support it without spring suspension. Sometimes that helps with rumble.

You do not have to lift the chassis totally off the springs, but enough to provide solid coupling from chassis to plinth and then to the heavy furniture substrate. In the past this has worked on some idler drives for me (Dual 1218, Garrard Type A). Effectiveness varies with each installation, I have not found a way to predict!

T68
senior member
senior member
Sweden
Posts: 454
Joined: 11 Jul 2018 18:41

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by T68 » 09 Dec 2019 07:23

Thanks for good advice, A70BBen! I'll try this when I start the rumble-hunt.

On question: If I choose to go down the the path of replacing stuff, which other Garrard models can be used as donors for:
Motor?
Idler?
Bearing?

DSJR
long player
long player
Wales
Posts: 3069
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 20:29
Location: Suffolk

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by DSJR » 09 Dec 2019 21:35

SL72B/75-75B/95-95B and motor wise, I think the 86SB and 100SB's too. The SL motor in general is compatible as long as you can replace the pulley. The mk1 motors were deeper underneath as the rotor sat on a ball bearing. The series 2 type was slimmer and arguably slightly cheaper to produce, but worked just fine long term (until the rotor parts come unstuck in some). Very late motors had the pulleys sweated on and the bottom screening shield plate disappeared. Starting with the Zero I believe, Garrard changed two of the motor mounting grommets for softer types (lighter grey colour) and these improved isolation but can sag with age as my 86SB deck did until I bought another motor with a fresher set of grommets. I have to agree with A70BBen that lightly coupling the sprung deck to the plinth thereby all but bypassing the springs seems to silence the 'drone' in the background in quiet passages that absolutely wasn't there when the deck was new. UK Reviews of the time all said how much 'quieter' the 100SB was over the previous idler model.

The idler I believe is the same in all the Autoslims and larger format decks above (also the AP75/76/96). The Unimech idler is different as is the Lab 80 and predecessors.

The main bearing is pretty much the same as all Garrard's later large format idler decks I think, but these rarely are the main cause of intrusive noise as long as the races are clean and greased and the shaft is lubed with a more viscous oil than light machine oil (Dual owners now seem to use good quality chainsaw oil as it doesn't run away as light oils do).

You're ignoring me when I say rumbles and noise are part of the 'idler charm.' I don't mind really, but I do believe I'm right. Just spend some time with a well set up Thorens 150 or a 160 without main bearing slop as some have, or a surviving mid 70's direct drive like a Technics SL1600/1700/1800 and you'll see - *and hear* - what I mean...

T68
senior member
senior member
Sweden
Posts: 454
Joined: 11 Jul 2018 18:41

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by T68 » 10 Dec 2019 09:39

Thanks for replying DSJR! Yes I understand rumble is part of the idler charm. But I just want to make sure it's as low it can be by doing what I can. And I like to tinker :-).
And for comparison the old stamped platter Lenco B52 has a lower rumble level than the Zero right now. If I could get it down to that I would be more than happy.

Note: recently swapped the Boston acoustic A60:s to a pair of Sentec SP77 speakers (Swedish 70's build) and also diy:ed a dual layer rubbercork/bitumen mat for the Zero and rumble is down. Still have good bass though.

DSJR
long player
long player
Wales
Posts: 3069
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 20:29
Location: Suffolk

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by DSJR » 10 Dec 2019 16:43

The B52 WILL BE quieter through the stylus and to be honest, you'll be doing fundamental redesign work to even begin to approach this level from a Garrard (even a Dual 1229 may suffer and my 1019 doesn't begin to come close right now!).

It's a fun conversation piece, but I swear the Zero 100 was nowhere near state of the art when it was introduced and was never really intended to be.

T68
senior member
senior member
Sweden
Posts: 454
Joined: 11 Jul 2018 18:41

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by T68 » 11 Dec 2019 16:26

I hear you. But maybe I can get it down just a wee bit lower :-)...

T68
senior member
senior member
Sweden
Posts: 454
Joined: 11 Jul 2018 18:41

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by T68 » 11 Dec 2019 19:13

Maybe too early for a victory cigar. But did some light sanding of the idler (maybe the refurb guy was sloppy) and also polished the pulley with some really fine wet sanding paper.
Listening to the result right now (some Miles Davis with a lot of quiet parts) and cannot here that rumble at my normal volume setting and listening position any more! Of course it's there if I stick my ears close to the speakers.
But right now Im a happy Zero guy!

Wonder if that homemade mat also is helping...? Did try some other mats (rubber, felt and even double) before without any improvement. But this one maybe isolates better?

Hope the improvement is permanent. Who knows what other surprises this old fellow has in store :D ...

DSJR
long player
long player
Wales
Posts: 3069
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 20:29
Location: Suffolk

Re: Just won a Zero 100s - let the fun (?) begin!

Post by DSJR » 11 Dec 2019 22:04

Well done..

Sorry to bang on about it, but 'vinyl' does have noise and some older records have rumble in the cutting lathe added. Often on a good pressing, you can hear venue noise (as well as tape noise if it's an analogue recording) coming in and out each track, but I'm sure you know all that anyway ;)

Garrards often respond well to thin cork mats (on top of the original) and I think you can still get thin ones which would be suitable. I rather like the original Zero 100 mat I must say, as it supports over most of the record - I'm kind of the opinion right now that the centre of the record needs support and not just the edge as many decks (Duals!) did back then! Again, my Zero 100 mat is still supple enough.

The UK sourced Garrards I have usually still had supple idler tyres although the Lab 80mk2 idler had a flat on it (regular bump-bump-bump noise in the background) which responded to a quick spin in a drill chuck and wet-n-dry to buff the edge a little (don't try this on Duals really, as the edges are radiused slightly). Some do seem to slip slightly in other climates though, but after 'dressing,' I'd ask to make sure the driving edge is smooth with no 'lumps.'

Post Reply