Help with stylus choice for everyday use

[jhg540]

Hi all,

I need to upgrade the stylus on my turntable. I have Shure v15 type iv cartridge. I am probably going to go with a Jico replacement stylus. (Also have a Stanton 680, but in unknown working condition, so not dropping big bucks on that yet.)

The question I have for you all is whether I should go for the SAS or the HE. Not an issue of money or which is "better" in the ideal world but rather which would be better for my "everyday" use. I have a wide variety of records, and they range from really excellent condition to garage sale not-so-excellent. Would either the Jico SAS or the HE (or some other?) track and perform better for everyday use across this wide range?

Additional details if it matters: the cartridge is on a recently acquired Dual 504, Kenwood KA-3500 amp, Dynaco a-25 speakers. So all late 70s, overall tending to bass/dark coloration. Wouldn't mind something that balanced that out a bit.

Thanks for any advice. And seriously, I'm looking for advice about what would track well and sound good for everyday real use, not what would be "best" for only ideal-condition vinyl.

[jhg540]

No one can help with this? I've seen some say the SAS just works and others say that it gets squirrelly on vinyl that is not pristine. Really hoping to understand this before I buy...

[Bran Kulez]

I recently purchased the JICO VN35E (Shure V15 type III) for everyday use and am very happy with it. It sounds and tracks as good as the original but with a little more gusto. I plan on getting the SAS version in the near future but will only drive it on Sundays...

[jhg540]

Thanks. My problem is that all of the type iv styli are expensive now...even the generics are near $60. The jico he is close to $100, the sas is about $150.

[Bran Kulez]

jhg540 wrote: The question I have for you all is whether I should go for the SAS or the HE. Not an issue of money or which is "better" in the ideal world but rather which would be better for my "everyday" use.

jhg540 wrote: My problem is that all of the type iv styli are expensive now...

o.k., so which is it?

[jhg540]

That's just it. They are both pretty expensive, so the decision isn't about money. I've read a lot of posts about "which cart should I buy" but usually they are asking either what is the "best" cart or what is best value for money. I'm asking what is likely to perform best for average, real-world use.

I'm glad to know the HE sounds and tracks well in the real world. Anyone want to chime in on the SAS?

[dlaloum]

The SAS is excellent - but I have not personally compared it to a HE.

My alternative suggestion would be to seek out a decent spherical/conical stylus for your "beater", and use the SAS at all other times.

The real difference between SAS and HE is the cantilever and not the needle, if you put a HE on the SAS cantilever, my guess is that it would sound indistinguishable from the SAS.

The difference in side radius is marginal, the SAS has a longer theoretical contact patch, and according to Jico would be expected to have a 20% longer life... (ie it wears more slowly, and therefore will last more hours)

In terms of tracking ability the SAS is an absolute champion, in the tradition of Shure. - I would be very surprised if the HE with an inferior cantilever could match the tracking abilities of the SAS.
But keep in mind that its tracking ability will be constrained by the arm matching... (helped along by the damping brush obviously!) - like any cartridge really!

bye for now
David

[Bran Kulez]

dlaloum wrote: The real difference between SAS and HE is the cantilever and not the needle, if you put a HE on the SAS cantilever, my guess is that it would sound indistinguishable from the SAS.

This is something that I have suspected. Before subscribing to VE, the only point of reference available to me were hi-fi magazines and manufacturers literature and it seemed as though stylus shape was everything.

My alternative suggestion would be to seek out a decent spherical/conical stylus for your "beater", and use the SAS at all other times.

As far as I know, there are 2 sources of aftermarket styli for Shure cartridges, Switzerland and Japan, (i.e. PFANSTIEHL and JICO). The construction of the Japan based styli are visually identical to the OEM SHURE styli. The Swiss made styli leave out several components. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=48779

I'm not an engineer but my guess is that these components were excluded from the Swiss styli not for sonic reasons but were excluded for ease of procuring parts and ease of manufacturing.

[gg383]

You can get a generic for the 680 in the $20 range, they'll protect your records better for now and allow you more time for shopping for that GREAT deal. You might even be satisfied with the generic. Glenn.

[Bran Kulez]

I don't think there are any GREAT deals to be had unless you get a pristine OEM stylus for cheap. With generics you get what you pay for, with the exception of Ed Saunders which is twice the price of its Pfanstiehl twin.

[jhg540]

All good points and thanks. I ordered a SAS, may get the HE as well at some point as backup. I was really interested in the discussion of the many different aftermarket styli for the Shure V15 type iii. Sadly there are not so many choices for the type iv, but I wondered if people had experience with them.

Again, thanks.