Shure V15 Type 3 Generic Styli

[Bran Kulez]

The first cartridge I ever owned was a hand-me-down Shure M7-N21D setup in an Elac 10, but the first cartridge I ever bought was a Shure V15 type 3. I listened to it for several years in my Technics SL 1600 mk2 and was completely happy with this setup until I read an article in some hi-fi magazine that recommended changing cartridges every few years, what did I know? So I bought a V15 type 4 and then a V15 type 5-MR. Luckily, I didn't get rid of the cartridges I replaced.

Since the type 4 and 5 have the dynamic stabilizing brushes, I didn't think that the brushes on the generics would be as good as the originals. So I unearthed my V15 type 3 a couple of years ago and bought 4 NOS SHURE VN35E 's from an ebay vendor for $25.00 each... ... two of them were in perfect condition, the other two had cantilevers that were completely corroded.

I wanted to find a reliable source for replacement styli for some of my vintage Shure cartridges so I've been trying out generics from JICO, Garage-A-Records, Turntable Needles, LP Gear, Voice of Music, and Ed Saunders.

For the past few weeks I've been listening to the V15 type 3 in my Pioneer PL-41D comparing the following styli, these are my humble (?) observations:

Shure VN35E price varies, nude elliptical, USA, smooth and neutral sounding

Garage-A-Records VN35E $39.95, bonded elliptical, Japan, the closest to the Shure of the group

JICO VN35 $78.00, bonded elliptical, Japan, lively and great sounding, slightly more forward than the Shure and G-A-R

The Generic Stylus 4764-DE $15.00, bonded elliptical, Japan, similar to G-A-R but slightly less smooth (faintly gritty?)

Ed Saunders VN35E $39.00, bonded elliptical, Switzerland, dull sounding with weak bass

Pfanstiehl 4764-DE $15.00, bonded conical, Switzerland, similar to ES


Taking a closer look I found that, physically, the JICO, Garage-A-Records and The Generic Stylus all have the components that are shown in the following illustration(with the exception of the telescoping cantilever):



The Ed Saunders and Pfanstiehl, which are identical physically to each other, (with the exeption of the stylus tip, ES is slightly smaller) do not have the following components: 4, 5, 8, and the square tube that surrounds 6. The Ed Saunders and Pfanstiehl have smaller cylindrical magnets instead of the square magnets that the others have. Also, the cantilevers on these two are slightly thicker than the others.

The JICO and Generic Stylus, although they sound different, are identical in every way: Both are made in Japan and it's obvious that they are from the same factory.

As mentioned above, the Ed Saunders and Pfanstiehl are identical and both made in Switzerland. The curious thing is that the black plastic grips on the Ed Saunders, Pfanstiehl, JICO and Generic Stylus are identical to each other including all of the manufacturing flaws.

One more observation, the Shure and the Garage-A-Records not only sound similar, but also have similar grip designs that the others do not share.

Photos of all of the above mentioned styli are in my album.

[zeplin43]

Very nice explanation imo.Great fotos as well.
I also have the EVG generic stylus and it is well worth the little it costs.
I bought 2 from Ed Saunders but in my case the shank is to thin so i was not able to eliminate the sibilance this problem was common to both my V15 III Carts.

[Bran Kulez]

Thanks zep,
Can you post a photo or two of the EVG? I'm curious how it compares to the others in build quality. Can you elaborate on the shank issue? Do you mean the portion that slides into the cartridge?

[Bran Kulez]

Here are the specs from JICO:

The specifications of our 'VN35' [e007443] is as follows,
Tip : elliptical 0.3 x 0.7 mil, bonded diamond tip
Tracking force : 0.75-1.50g
Output Voltage : 2.6mV
Channel Balance : 1.5dB
Channel Separation : 20dB
Compliance : 14×10-6cm/dyne(lateral), 12×10-6cm/dyne(vertical)
Frequency range : 20 - 20,000 Hz

the only info available for the others are tip size: .3 x .7 mil and tracking force: 1.25 grams (typical)

[gg383]

I picked up a Dual 510 yesterday that has a Shure V15 III DU Cartridge on it. What does the DU mean?? I searched around on the net for a while I ordered the generic stylus for now from Andersons Music in N.J. $15.00, what the heck, I'll be listening to it B4 Ed Saunders would even mail one!! He only sends out orders on Thursdays. P.O. is a long trip I guess. Anyway their ad said they would send out the Pfanstiehl 4764-DE elliptical or the EVG 764-DE elliptical, what ever's in stock. Could be interesting to see which one I get. You noted the 4764-DE as a conical but Andersons says it's a .3 x.7 elliptical diamond. I'm hoping to be listening to the V15 III by next Wednesday!!! Glenn.

[zeplin43]

In regards to Ed Saunders stylus

Thanks zep,
Can you post a photo or two of the EVG? I'm curious how it compares to the others in build quality. Can you elaborate on the shank issue? Do you mean the portion that slides into the cartridge?

The Ed Saunders shank is to thin so the stylus does not have a fixed position it can oscillate 1/2 mm between stylus and cart, bluetac was not a solution because the contact between shank and coils is weak.
The original shure and EVG shank make a perfect tight fit.
Here a pic of the EVG stylus

[Bran Kulez]

gg383 wrote: I picked up a Dual 510 yesterday that has a Shure V15 III DU Cartridge on it. What does the DU mean?? ... You noted the 4764-DE as a conical but Andersons says it's a .3 x.7 elliptical diamond.

"DU" designates a Shure cartridge with a housing designed for certain Dual tonearms. There is also a "DM" which I believe is for earlier Dual tonearms, 1219 family? The "LM" I think, is for later Dual Low Mass tonearms,

"DE" means diamond elliptical but mine is clearly a conical. At the quality level of these styli, I'm not convinced that there would be much difference in sound between the two...take a look at the following thread...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46354

[Bran Kulez]

zeplin43 wrote: The Ed Saunders shank is to thin so the stylus does not have a fixed position it can oscillate 1/2 mm between stylus and cart, bluetac was not a solution because the contact between shank and coils is weak.

Ed Saunders makes some bold claims about their styli but they don't seem to be any different from the bargain needles found on ebay.

It looks like the EVG has a bare-bones suspension like the Pfanstiehl and Ed Saunders, was it made in Switzerland?

[zeplin43]

Well i dont know where the EVG was made but it is completely different to the Ed Saunders stylus The EVG has a tapered cantilever.Here is a best shot i can take of the 4 i have to fit the V15 III cart on the left top corner you can make the pic bigger.

Left - EVG, next ED S,Original,last Micro Ridge

[AK]

branku62, thank you for this informative thread!
I also have some experience with V15 III aftermarket styli and will share my thoughts with you. I have the original Super-TrackPlus, the Ed Saunders, one Japanese "Special Tracking" which is probably the same as the one from the photo zeplin43 posted, and one old stock Walco. The Walco is the only one which is built exactly like the Shure and has all the parts from the picture you posted earlier in this thread, and also has the tiniest cantilever. However, and you can see from magnified photos in my album, diamond looks quite different. I also have posted a thread about the Walco stylus here at the forum. Currently I run my V15 III on a Dual 704 - its arm has to be a very good match to the V15 - actually it was probably designed with this cartridge in mind and they originally sold this table with the V15 III pre-mounted (the Dual variant, V15III-LM). My thoughts about the different aftermarket styli I have:
- the original Shure has the smoothest sound, neutral, with good overall balance, a great tracker, tracks the sibilants with ease and stays in control (one of my criteria for being a good stylus);
- Walco - very similar, delicate sound, a little more treble without being harsh, deep bass (it's still probably not broken in as I used it for a very short time);
- 764-DE "Special Tracking" - this Japanese stylus has what looks like a generic suspension, no support wire, cantilever is thin and slightly bended downwards. Sound is very close to the Shure, detailed, not harsh, probably not quite as refined, but very close. It tracks very well and manages to stay in control with sibilants. It's the stylus I use most of the time;
- Ed's - actually I have two of them - they differ... - one of the cantilevers is shorter, tracking angle is different. I have no complains about them being bass shy. However, mids are not as detailed, sound is clearly not as refined as the Shure. But the main issue is: sibilance. No matter the VTA, VTF, etc. - there's just no good control over sibilants and after a while this becomes fatiguing to the ears. It shouldn't be like these - at least from comparisons with original Shure stylus on his web site. Probably earlier examples of his styli were very good or at least better, I don't know. His current production, though, is obviously far from the quality of the original - both construction and soundwise...
I may post some photos later.

[gg383]

Ya know I looked at that V15 III DU for at least 10 min. the other day with a 5X loop looking at the stylus and shank saying crap, I gotta get another stylus quick, the shank was bent, that I didn't even notice, no cartridge screws. It's either bonded or push pinned into the headshell at 4 points. Kinda neet, First time I saw that on a Dual cartridge headshell combo!! It does look like this combo is together for the long run and can't be seperated!!! I'm hoping the angle was preset for a certain length Dual Tonearm, hopefully the 510 I found it on!! If any one has any factory info on the V15 III DU and wants to share it PM it to me or send it to the library. I'm also kind of glad I popped for the generic for now, sounds like maybe the Ed Saunders isn't worth more than twice the price?? Thanks to all of you for the info, been here for half a year and I'm constantly learning things!!!! Glenn.

[Bran Kulez]

Thanks zeplin43 for the photos.

[Bran Kulez]

AK,
Very good thread you started, and great photos! The Walco looks like it is worth searching for.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=40480

AK wrote: - Ed's - actually I have two of them - they differ... - one of the cantilevers is shorter, tracking angle is different.

...sounds like Ed Saunders buys and sells whatever is available...?

[Bran Kulez]

gg383 wrote: ...I'm hoping the angle was preset for a certain length Dual Tonearm, hopefully the 510 I found it on...

I also have a Dual 510 with a Shure V15 3 DU pre-mounted in it's headshell. Although I haven't checked it with a protractor, it sounds very good as-is.