Cartridge Replacement and Amplifier Compatibility.

[peterdadamn]

Hi everyone,

I just recently signed up to the site and have been reading many articles which have been of great help to me, as well as leading me on to purchasing a Spin Clean cleaner which has been keeping me very busy of late.

I'm currently using a Technics SL-J300R Linear Tracking Turntable, which I picked up a while ago and is in fully working order, there isn't much info on this turntable although it seems to bear a resemblance to the Sl-J33. I'm running the turntable into my Yamaha RX-V1600 Receiver, which has a phono stage with ground terminal.

The problem I'm having is that the sound lacks any real bass and has a very 'tinny' top end and I'm not sure what is at the root of the problem. All other sources into the amp sound warm when using the 'pure direct' mode of the amplifier, which shuts down all none essential circuitry to allow maximum stereo fidelity.

I recently replaced the stylus but wondered if it could be to do with the cartridge, which is a Technics P-30 and (I believe) the original cartridge it shipped with. The receiver manual recommends using a high output MM or MC cartridge and that a a head-amplifier is to be used if it is a low output MC cartridge is in use. Does anyone know if the P-30 is a MM or MC cartridge? And could anyone recommend a cartridge that they may think is suitable if, at all, they believe it to be the cause of the thin sound?

Would it be beneficial to look into a separate phono amplifier? I must admit, I like my linear tracking turntable and it's in such great condition that I would love to get the most out of it, hopefully it's not the case that these Technics turntables inherently have a thin sound to them.

Any help would be appreciated for anyone who got to the end of this post!

Regards

Peter

[Keso77]

I'd almost bet my left nut on that you'd notice an improvement with a good quality external pre.

Almost.

[peterdadamn]

You're a braver man than I, but why the left one?

Can you recommend a preamp that you may think is suitable for my setup?

Like a lot of people at the moment, budget is certainly an important consideration. I'm guessing that something valve would help me to achieve the warm sound I'm looking for?

[peterdadamn]

Or am I getting into serious money there?!

I'm just reading about some of the more 'budget' pre amps, in particular the Cambridge Audio 651p, would it be worth investing in one of these to see if there is an improvement?

[Keso77]

Why left? I already lost the right one in a bet.

Jokes aside...

I've had the 640p, never heard the 651p so I can not comment on it. The 640p was nice but a bit too polite in my system. I liked it well enough anyway, only sold it because I had several other phono amps already.

What kind of budget are we talking about? I personally consider this particular piece of gear in the chain to often be the weak part so this is where I would put some budget focus if I was rebuilding.
A cheaper cart with a killer riaa, in my oppinion, often sounds better than a killer cart with a cheaper riaa.

Just my oppinion in the matter.

[youngdand]

i can't see a budget pre being any better than the pre in the yamaha. yamaha are not a shabby make by any means, and although it ma not be super league, i would expect it to be fairly decent sounding. and certainl not to lack anything or sound tinny. i just would not expect it to sound as refined as external pre.

i would check that the cart is plugged in securey and correctly. check the cables good, and that the plugs on these are not corroded.

is the yammy set up correctly? do ou have a sub etc attached, are all the volumes set right?

[peterdadamn]

I can see this turning into a serious shopping excursion!

I've had the Receiver for a few years and everything is set up correctly; the main reason for choosing the RX-V1600 was that sounded great with multi-channel audio, had a great pure stereo mode and featured a phono stage. I've adjusted gain trims, switched between speaker sizes, incorporated a sub, eq'd individual channels and everything sounds great apart from the phono input, it just lacks any weight.

Having recently replaced the stylus, I checked and cleaned the contacts for the T4P cartridge and all of the connections to the receiver, but alas.

Maybe trying to get my hands on another turntable might help to determine if it is the receiver or the Technics that's causing me the problems?

[youngdand]

where are you in the UK?

I have a nad PP2 pre amp which i know sounds good, but i would not expect it to be any better that the one in the yammy. if ou are local to me, i am happ to let ou try it out.

[peterdadamn]

I live in Birmingham, so quite a jaunt!

Thank you so much for the offer though, it's a very kind thought.

[dlaloum]

The P30 is a basic but quite high quality cartridge from Technics. It is a standard high output Moving Magnet design.

It includes design features such as laminated core poles, which normally are only found on much more expensive designs.

HOWEVER - the quality of the output will be limited by:

1) Stylus quality - there are many cheapie after market styli out there for this cartridge - and many of these are of questionable quality.
The best off the shelf stylus for it is the Jico SAS - not cheap but excellent value - with that mounted on the P30 you have a cartridge that can compete with things like the Nagaoka MP500, Audio Technica AT150MLx, Ortofon 2M Black. - Serious high performing competition.
http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_ ... ts_id=1446
(Their basic eliptical version is $100 cheaper than the high tech SAS, and is also good quality - but the SAS is something special)

2) Capacitance - you may need to increase or reduce the capacitance of your setup to properly suit the cartridge.
Check the turntable/cartridge specifications - too much or too little can affect the sound in various ways.

IMO you should be able to get good sound from your setup without needing a seperate phono stage.

bye for now

David

[youngdand]

there is always the chance tht it is a duff stylus. Where did ou purchase it? was it expensive? maybe return it and exchange it.

[peterdadamn]

Thank you for your advice, I shall have a look into that brand of stylus.

I purchased the current stylus from Stylusplus and the sibilant distortion that was very apparent on the old stylus has been improved so I don't think it's a duff, it just hasn't added anything to the weight of the sound reproduction.

How would I even being to adjust the capacitance? Is it an adjustment within the turntable or the receiver?

[dlaloum]

Capacitance is not adjustable on a basic setup...

It is the inherent capacitance of the cables in the arm and turntable, the interconnects, and the additional capacitors fitted as "load" in the phono stage of the amp.

The load caps can only be changed by getting out a soldering iron, the interconnects from TT to amp can be replaced with higher quality low capacitance items (one of the standard upgrade tweaks!).

I cannot recall off the top of my head what the target capacitance is for the P30 cartridge... so that will be the first bit of research - how much capacitance do you need?
Then you need to find out how much capacitance load is in the phono stage... (could be anything from 50pf to 250pf, although on same amps it has been found to be as high as 1000pf)- this should be on the amps specs, if not then a scan of the circuit diagrams for the phono stage will usually show them ...

If you have standard interconnects on your TT, assume 200pf, if you have low capacitance interconnects assume 150pf... alternatively buy or borrow a multimeter with capacitance measurement capability and measure it!

Capacitance is additive, so if TT and cables is 200pf and amp is 250pf your total capacitance would be 450pf...

bye for now

David

[KentT]

Other thing to consider, you are stuck with T4P aka P-Mount which limits cartridge choices. Many are no longer produced new.