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shure v15 alternative?

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shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 04:54

I have an old 70's VIII but needs a new stylus which I can't track down. Since I know anything but nos stylus will give me back the sound, wondering if there are any other shure model cartridges that fly under the radar with just as good sound for not too ridiculuos prices? any suggests?
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 05:00

and yes, I have tried the shure m97xe that is the current shure offering and did not like it much......any ideas on an old 70's model?
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby dlaloum » 26 May 2012 06:11

The only thing that gets really close to the original V15III performance is the Jico SAS stylus.

Other alternatives are to have a stylus professionally retipped (which will cost around the same or more than a SAS)

What Table/arm/phono stage will you be using this on?

What did you find "wrong" with the M97xE?

There is nothing in the current Shure range equivalent to the V15III...

Occasionally you can find various cartridges from the classic ranges of the 70's/80's/90's which are good and for which styli can still be purchased.
eg: Shure Ultra300/400 or ML120/140 these are on a par or better than the V15 series in performance (the top of the line Utra500 was a V15V with an upgraded body)

Cartridges available new that are in the same performance category:
Ortofon 2M Bronze/Black
Audio Technica AT150MLx
Nagaoka MP300/500

Cartridges that may match the V15III or be slightly inferior (at least theoretically):
Audio Technica AT440MLa
Nagaoka MP200
Ortofon 2M Blue

HTH

bye for now

David
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby Dimal » 26 May 2012 10:37

G'day "silvertone"... :)

Personally, I believe that the Jico SAS Stylus that David has referred to above, is probably an even better 'tracker' than the original VN35E Shure replacement. If you would prefer to stick with a Stylus that performs almost identically to the original, then it is hard to pass up on the "Ed Saunders" replacement. Located here... http://tinyurl.com/d226mds

I bought two of them a little while ago for my V15-III, and can vouch for their quality and identical performance (to my ears) to my one remaining original VN35E. Can definitely recommend them... 8)

Mal.
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 19:34

great info guys, thanks much. I may just try out that saunders aftermarket first since the price is so reasonable. Was not aware of him.....regarding the m97xe, I recall it had a sort of cardboard or papery quality to the mids that didn't seem right, in addition the lows and highs were not anything special and the overall tone just didn't have any body, especially compared to a stanton 881 for example.....regarding the other mentioned options of AT and ortofon, I've tried a few over the years and just feel their sound signature is not what i'm looking for, the AT's tend to be a little too much treble energy and the ortofon sound, at least in the lower end models, seems to have an odd quality to them, a kind of distortion or color that I don't like. I really only like the upper end shures and stantons these days it seems.......'old school tone I suppose.
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 19:44

The turntable is a linn axis. has the stock k9 on it now which is great for some music but not all, and has a touch of mid/high compression and a slight lack of instrument separation. It's not a bad cart, but looking to try others on this table. And the phone pre is a NAD integrated.
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby dlaloum » 26 May 2012 19:59

I would suggest reading the cartridge loading thread viewtopic.php?t=6674

A major part of the difference between cartridges is related to optimal loading - by adjusting the loading you can make them sound much more alike.

With the Audio Technica cartridges as an example, I prefer to run them at around 32kohm rather than the default 47kohm - when set up that way, the rising top end is tamed, and they become much more neutral.

The Ortofon's have a similar rising top end (slightly less pronounced)- and can similarly be adjusted with loading.

The M97xE can also be helped with some adjusted loading - good article on the topic here:http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/load_the_magnets_e.html

The top end Shures (V15VMR, ML140) were very very neutral, as were the top Stanton's and Pickerings...
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 20:54

while i'm sure that matters, it's a little over my head technically. I don't see how I can change the preamp I have since I'm not an electrical technician. It is what it is unfortunately. They should come with knobs to adjust if it is in fact an important variable......
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby happylad » 26 May 2012 20:55

try the Pickering xv 15 625 if you can find one , I rate this cartridge highly and holds it's own with the Shure V15.S comfortably
My hi fi has come and gone but the Leak stereo 20 stays !!
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 21:35

happy, would you say that model is pickering equivalant of the stant 681? and not the 881? I like both but may prefer the less dark/more open 881 if given a choice. Still the pickering model you mention may be worth a shot depending on how you feel it compares to 681/881.......I'm guessing it's more like the 681 if you feel it's like the shure, which seem to be on the darker/smoother side of things.
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby happylad » 26 May 2012 22:33

It's the same as the 681 at the moment I have a jico shibita stanton style stylus in it and it sounds lovely .As I have posted previously I own a Shure Ultra 500 and the Pickering gives it a real run for its money . It seems to have a bit more zip to it then the Shures IMHO.
My hi fi has come and gone but the Leak stereo 20 stays !!
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby silvertone » 26 May 2012 22:57

that jico may help get some of the detail back that a stock 681/xv15 may not have?
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby studio57a » 26 May 2012 23:57

We have been using Acutex M310-IIE (Bilaterals) for over twenty years in our studios. It is an extremely rugged design, quite advanced for the late 70's. Works in all applications, unlike may Shure or other "open" needle designs such as Sonus, it withstands a lot of abuse. The extraordinary mechanical design of the 'M' series Acutex, provides extreme forgiveness from miss-handling from drops. The shield limits the vertical and horizontal excursions of the rotor from these types of accidents. It also provides a secondary EMI/RFI shielding around its rotor, making it extremely imune to those external noise sources. Very few, if any did that.

The Bi-Lateral diamond is cut to a .3mm-.7mm. pitch. Very close to an STR. Therefore, the tracking is quite excellent, as it sits deeper into the V.

Separation has been measured to be better that 35dB from 20-30kHz on our equipment.

Modern FFT Spectrum analysis shows it responds to the upper 60kHz range. This type of equipment or the newer RIAA test platters, were not available in late 70's era.

The published data sheet supplied shows it's upper range to be only 20kHz, while the STR model (M312-IIIE STR) had a published 45kHz upper range. In fact both performed well into the 50-60kHz range. Probably a marketing strategy, as the STR cut is very expensive to accomplish. It was called Spec-Manship, in those days.

Both the M310-IIE and the M312-III STR had identical bodys; tri-pole armature, and the rear induced magnet. Both stylus' are interchangeable with this model. They even work on the older M307 and up series, though the magnet was more powerful in the 310 and up series.

We have replaced these stylus many times over the years, alternating between the Bi-Lateral and STR cuts depending on the damage to the vinyl.

The STR cuts are 3.mm -.6 mm, making the STR a preferred mount into a damaged upper part of the V groove (clicks from horizontal damage).

All stylus are still available, though getting more expensive as time goes by.

Additionally, the stylus' can be aligned very easily from aging dried out dampeners.
A little twist, after soaking the rotor in alcohol overnight, does the trick.

Lastly, if your careful, you can tune out the +/- 2dB L/R channel to zero, by adjusting the armature to center over the poles. No cart designed made today can do that.

Overall, we have no problems in its use, or serviceability.

A real rugged workhorse, and outperforms many higher end units made today, which did not have the all the advanced shielding and built in safety features.

So, when your choosing a replacement for the V-15, consider everything.

Remember, the rotor, (aka: needle-armature), is the key to it's performance. The coils and method of MM (Moving Magnet, or Induced Magnet designs) differ only in its serviceability or repairability.

Warmest of regards,

Gene
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Re: shure v15 alternative?

Postby happylad » 27 May 2012 00:05

The genuine Pickering stylus is very good ( as purchased from Vickers uk ) , the Jico is more expensive , so take that into consideration . Im still running in my Jico about 30 hours now ,it's a more refined sound I would say compared to the standard 625 but it's not night and day , at least in my Jelco 750d . I would say compared to the Ultra 500 ( considered by many , the best v15 ever) it gets edged out on spatial information , other than that I find it very very similar with a tad more zip and when you think the ULTRA WAS £500 compared to the Pickering at around £100 I considere it a real bargain .
My hi fi has come and gone but the Leak stereo 20 stays !!
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