Any MM/High Output MC Cartridge Rec's for Clearaudio Concept

[kevindoyle]

I have a Clearaudio Concept turntable, and have been using a Shelter 201 cartridge with it. I'd been considering a Soundsmith cartridge but the the output of .06mV is not enough for the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum's built in preamp. Rogue recommends a minimum of 1.5mV output.

Before talking to dealers of the respective lines, I thought it would be useful to get some feedback from other forum members as to their experiences with cartridges on the Clearaudio Concept, whether from owners, past owners, or those who have friends with them.

Does anyone have any experience with any of the following cartridges or any other recommendations?

Dynavector 10X5 $450 2.5mV
Dynavector 20X2 $850 2.8mV
Ortofon 2M Bronze $400 5mV
Ortofon 2M Black $700 5mV
Clearaudio Aurum Alpha Wood $400 3.6mV
Clearaudio Aurum Beta Wood $600 3.6mV
Clearaudio Aurum Beta S $750 3.6mV
Clearaudio Virtuoso $950 3.6mV
Clearaudio Maestro $1,200 3.6mV

There is a lot of owner feedback around on the Dynavector, Ortofon, and Clearaudio Virtuoso and Wood cartridges, but very little for the Clearaudio Aurum series of cartridges.

I would like to spend around $500, but am willing to spend more if it'd be worth it. The main limiting factor is that I would prefer to use the built in phonostage, and not have to spend more on an outboard unit.

I guess another question is "How much cartridge can I put in front of the Rogue's built in phonostage before I'm throwing away money?"

[digiman]

The Clearaudio Maestro Wood is the best MM cart i have heard so far. But it also has quite a hefty $$$.
I compared it to Ortofon 2M Black and the Black is superb, but the midrange and lower end on Maestro Wood is to die for.

The lower end Clearaudios pick up quite a lot record wear imo.

[kevindoyle]

Thank you! That's very helpful. I've heard nothing but great things about the Maestro and 2M Black, but the $500 difference keeps pointing me toward the 2M Black, especially since I keep wondering if my built in phonostage will be a bottleneck, regardless of which cartridge I get. And that leads me back to the Dynavector 10x5 and Ortofon 2M Bronze. Any thoughts on matching a cartridge to what would essentially be a $200 phonostage?

One other question. When you say "low end Clearaudios", which particular ones do you mean?

[digiman]

I had a Clearaudio Aurum Alpha Wood for a few week and could not live with the noise it picks up on some of my 2nd hand LPs. The Maestro is much more quiet.

When i compared the 2M Black and Maestro Wood on my Marantz TT-15S1 i found the Maestro the best match. The Ortofon being slightly more lean and not as natural in the mids. The Maestro has one of the most fluid and life like mids i have heard from a cart.

[kevindoyle]

Well, then the lower end Clearaudios are out and all signs are pointing to the Maestro.

What phonostage you are using with it?

[digiman]

Well, then the lower end Clearaudios are out and all signs are pointing to the Maestro.

What phonostage you are using with it?

Actually using the built in MM phonostage in my Rega Brio-r. Sounds realy great in my man cave
Finaly a nice small amp with a great phonstage built in it again

My main system has a MC only phonostage, but it would be great to test the Maestro wood with a more high end phonostage at some point.

[kevindoyle]

You just made me feel a lot better. I auditioned the Rega Brio R and thought it and its phonstage were fantastic, but it's still a built in unit, like Rogue. But if you find the Maestro to be great through the Rega, I imagine I'll feel similarly playing it through the Rogue.

I actually auditioned a full Rega system and was blown away by how good it was. But I wanted tubes and added power for the speakers I had at the time, so the Rogue was more suitable. And it kept me from selling everything to start over with an all Rega system. I did go ahead and get the Rega DAC and Apollo-R, though. I'm definitely keeping an all Rega system in mind for when finances and space permit.

Well, Maestro it is! It'll be a few months, but I'm pretty much decided. Thank you so much!

[digiman]

I am certain you wil be very pleased with the Maestro.
I agree with you on the quality of the phonostage in the Brio-r. It made my respectable $200 outboard phonostage redundant and sold.

I guess my nick should be Regaman I went last month all out with Rega electronics in my main system and it sounds great. You can hear just how well the products work together when you build a one brand system from a respectable Hi-Fi comapny like Rega. My largest suprise is the Cursa 3 pre and Exon 3 Mono block amps. Man they take control of the music with a iron fist. Rega amp on steroids imo

[Tedrick]

From your list, I have the Clearaudio Aurum Beta and Dynavector 20XL (original low-output version). In my systems, the Aurum Beta had a nice, balanced sound with good bass weight and extension and a clean treble. The DV 20XL is more detailed and articulate, and has a richer midrange, wider and deeper soundstage, and better dynamics. I enjoyed the Aurum Beta when it was the feature cartridge in my main system, but now that I've gone off the moving coil deep-end, it's sitting in a box and will probably only get used in a tertiary system.

The Dynavector 10X5 is a very popular cartridge, and for very good reason. You get a good taste of what a top flight MC cartridge can do at a reasonable pricepoint and in a package that will work with most any MM phono stage.

One other thing to consider with all of the Clearaudio MM's is that long cantilveer, which seems to be very exposed and vulnerable to damage.

[Dismord]

If you're willing to spend more and step up to another level altogether I'd recommend the Garrott 'Optim' FGS. If you want a quality that equals and betters some moving coil cartridges without their problems you might consider stretching further to the Garrott 'Optim' FGS with ruby cantilever.
An alternative that would save you a lot of money is to buy either a Shure M97E or Shure V15 IV off ebay, throw the stylus in the bin and replace it with a SAS one from Jico.
http://www.garrottbrothers.com/
http://stylus.export-japan.com/sas.php
Or you could look into one of these and also upgrade to a JICO stylus.
http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/category13_1.htm
From your original list the Ortofon 2M Black is by far the best from what my ears tell me.

[dlaloum]

The CA cartridges are mostly mid compliance, the Ortofons and the Dynavectors are higher compliance... I would probably try to stick with mid compliance cartridges as that is what CA make for their own setup - the synergy is likely to be better.

As such I would be looking at:

CA's own cartridges (obviously)
Benz Micro ACE and Glider high output versions (or further up their range if budget allows)
Audio Technica AT7V - this is a very nice cartridge, little known and a descendant of the legendary Signet cartridges, mid compliance eliptical MM - a real bargain.
The Lyra cartridges are also mid compliance
Nagaoka MP500 - this long time cartridge maker's top MM is very very good indeed, and should be competitive or superior to the very best MM from CA (at half the price) - also a suitable mid compliance.

Other thoughts:
The CA moving magnet cartridges all use the same body/generator (OEM by Audio Technica, same format as the AT95, but with differing and much superior internals) - all that varies is the mounting (aluminium or differing woods), and the stylus fitted.
A number of people have purchased the bottom of the line CA MM cartridge, then sent it off to one of the retippers (SoundSmith USA, Expert UK, Schallplatenadeln De, etc...) to get fitted with a top flight cantilever and needle - all up cost for the custom job comes up to less than half the cost of the top CA cartridge, and those that have compared it to the Virtuoso/Maestro find it at least as good... possibly better.
Lots of talk about this in this thread http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl ... 1200430667 (very long, over 7000 postings... the CA cartridges were discussed over the last 4 months or so.)

HTH

bye for now

David

[AudioSoul]

I have a Clearaudio Concept turntable, and have been using a Shelter 201 cartridge with it. I'd been considering a Soundsmith cartridge but the the output of .06mV is not enough for the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum's built in preamp. Rogue recommends a minimum of 1.5mV output.

Before talking to dealers of the respective lines, I thought it would be useful to get some feedback from other forum members as to their experiences with cartridges on the Clearaudio Concept, whether from owners, past owners, or those who have friends with them.

Does anyone have any experience with any of the following cartridges or any other recommendations?

Dynavector 10X5 $450 2.5mV
Dynavector 20X2 $850 2.8mV
Ortofon 2M Bronze $400 5mV
Ortofon 2M Black $700 5mV
Clearaudio Aurum Alpha Wood $400 3.6mV
Clearaudio Aurum Beta Wood $600 3.6mV
Clearaudio Aurum Beta S $750 3.6mV
Clearaudio Virtuoso $950 3.6mV
Clearaudio Maestro $1,200 3.6mV

There is a lot of owner feedback around on the Dynavector, Ortofon, and Clearaudio Virtuoso and Wood cartridges, but very little for the Clearaudio Aurum series of cartridges.

I would like to spend around $500, but am willing to spend more if it'd be worth it. The main limiting factor is that I would prefer to use the built in phonostage, and not have to spend more on an outboard unit.

I guess another question is "How much cartridge can I put in front of the Rogue's built in phonostage before I'm throwing away money?"

I have the Rogue Audio Metis preamp that has the same MM phono section as your Cronus. These phono sections are the bare minimum just to have a phono section in these amps. I would not spend to much money on a cart. because you won't realize the benifits of the cart. because of the lack of quality phono section. I am not dissing Rogue they can only put so much into the phono sections of these budget amps

[Tedrick]

The CA cartridges are mostly mid compliance, .......and the Dynavectors are higher compliance...

Please enlighten. Looking at the cartridge database, the compliance figures for the Dynavectors are all less than 20x10E-6, with most of them in the 10 to 15x10E-6 range, which I am lead to believe is considered low to medium compliance. Both of the DV carts the OP is considering have lower compliance than any of the Clearaudio MM's, which all have a compliance of 15x10E-6.

If I am mistaken, it won't be the first time.

[kevindoyle]

And the nagging question of the value of running a $1200 cartridge into the Rogue's phonostage resurfaces!

Does anyone else have any thoughts on that?

What would you all consider the appropriate amount to spend on a cartridge that will be placed on a $1400 turntable and run through the Rogue's built in phonostage, which is great for what it is, but has obvious limitations?

BTW, Thank you all for your responses. I find it very helpful for making a tough decision.