M92e + (N97xe vs. N97xE SAS) : Difference?

[jkilla]

Hiya

I've seen numerous recommendations of pairing a JICO N97xe SAS stylus onto an M92e body, which definitely is intriguing.

My question is the difference between SAS stylus and the regular Shure stylus. Is the difference in performance way more than the price difference would allude to?

Are there any other shure styluses (SAS or regular) that would also go in that M92e body? I'm not sure how many other styli fall within the VTF roughly that of the T4p spec?

Thanks

[crofk]

The main difference will be your stylus design. there is a post here that describes different stylus shapes, advantages & disadvantages. As far as I know the suspension is similar though. Basically the biggest improvement is the SAS stylus design -- it's a nice upgrade. I believe there is also a post or two about the SAS and Shure carts. You can use the search and find them if you are interested.

kc

[Bran Kulez]

For half of the cost of the SAS, you could get the Jico N110HE which would be a more reasonable upgrade for the M92.

[jkilla]

For half of the cost of the SAS, you could get the Jico N110HE which would be a more reasonable upgrade for the M92.

Cool!

I'm also considering this, which i read in another post

Pfanstiehl calls their 4771-DHE, $20+ a Hyperbolic which I assume is actually a Hyperelliptical. In any case, this may be a poor man's
substitute for the JICO SAS for it does seem a considerable
improvement in sound without the high end roll off which
is charactoristic of the stock stylus. Has the fullness of the
M91 with seemingly better detail and a richer sound than
the M95 with a similar high.

My only concern with the three styli we're talking about (The N97xE SAS, Jico N110HE and the Pfanstiehl 4771-DHE, is they all list their VTF range as in and around 0.75-1.5 g, but given that I'm using a T4P TT, I will have to make some "modifications" to get them to track at 1.25g T4P

[Bran Kulez]

I'm not familiar with the TP4 turntable. Who makes it?

[jkilla]

I'm not familiar with the TP4 turntable. Who makes it?

Oops, I realise that can be read improperly. I have a Technics SL-BD24 Turntable (that conforms to T4P specifications). Basically I can't really fiddle around with the counterweight, so cartridge+stylus combos must meet the factory spec'd 1.25g of Tracking Force

[Bran Kulez]

I'm not sure what T4P is but I'm guessing it is a "P" mount setup since you are looking for a stylus to fit the M92E body (which is a P-mount cartridge).

If this is the case then the JICO N110HE should work fine because it has the same grip as the stylus that came with your cartridge. The N97xE has a brush that adds weight to the stylus assembly.

[lini]

bk: T4P is the original Technics designation for P-mount.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[Bran Kulez]

Thanks

[dlaloum]

You should just check to make sure that the VTF is not in fact adjustable - many T4P tables (especially the better ones - and quite a few of the Technics were among the better ones!) - had adjustable VTF - but the adjustment method was not always obvious!

The M92 is the same exact body as the M97 - no difference - the differences are 1) the P-mounting (which also adds mass), and 2) The needle (with or without brush)

The VTF is driven by the needle and the use of the brush.

I use some of the other p-mount shure family styli with the SAS (Me75p, 1000e, M105e - several of which are identical to the M92)

Here are some stylus choices in the proper p-mount format:
http://www.turntableneedles.com/search. ... &search=GO

And in the "with brush" format:
http://www.turntableneedles.com/search. ... &search=GO

And there are the brushless non p-mount versions that also fit (VTF needs adjustment for many of these):
http://www.turntableneedles.com/search. ... &search=GO

With the OEM styli for the cartridges with the same specs (inductance = 650mH to 750mH) - use the original manufacturer specs for the cartridge that matches the stylus to work out setup.
With those where the original cartridge inductance was different - it may take a bit of playing around to get cartridge loading spot on.

The cartridges that match the M92 are (ie same internal magnetics/electrics)

M95
M97
M105
RXT6
M104
M92
RXP3
Me75p
(there are more...)

[jkilla]

I've been researching frantically, and I think I've found a potential candidate: A Pfanstiehl 4773-DHL aka a Generic Replacement for the Shure N111HE. Tracking without a brush looks to be rated right on at 1.25 grams. It's at a price where I don't mind taking a chance on it, and should be a definite upgrade over my stock N92E stylus

I know I can tweak the counterweight very minimally using a screwdriver on my turntable to adjust the VTF, but whether the amount is able to offset the brush etc., I am uncertain.

[dlaloum]

Just as an FYI - the SAS brush adds 0.25g to the cartridge weight - and it just so happens to require 0.25g of additional VTF to offset the brush.

So with my P-mount shure's I can just fit the SAS and play - it is plug and play just like the proper OEM p-mount styli. (I even have an original V15HRP stylus... but the SAS is better...)

[Bran Kulez]

The Pfanstiehl 4773-DHL has a flip-down stylus guard that will add weight to the business end of the tonearm. Although it is a replacement for the N111HE, you won't be getting a "hyper-elliptical" stylus.

Take a look at the following link...

http://www.lpgear.com/product/SHN104E.html

It is a genuine Shure stylus that is an upgrade for the M92E. It has the same stylus grip as the N92 so you won't be adding weight.

[Bran Kulez]

Here's a pretty good thread about generic styli

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=36766