Where's the love for Broadcast Phono Stages?

[archetypemusic]

Hi Everyone.

Recently I acquired a Technics SL-D202 turntable and a rebranded Project Phono pre. The turntable I like; the phono...not so much. While searching around for good used phono stages I found quite a few broadcast phono stages (Stanton 310b, Audio Metric TP84, ATI, McCurdy) out there for very little money.

I'm wondering why broadcast phono stages are not a popular alternative to buying more expensive stage? They're built to last, require low maintenance and (seem to) have quite good specs.

Are they:
- just average performers?
- unpopular because they look...industrial?
- Actually are too Industrial i.e wired balanced outputs
- missing name brand appeal

How do the broadcast phonos compare amongst themselves? What would you avoid and what would be a real bargain?

Sonically how do they compare to my options of modern or (sort of) current production pieces like a Cambridge Audio 640, a used Phonomena 2 or an old Bryston bp1.5?

I'm not one for flipping gear so I'd be open to other suggestions in the $100-$600 range for a phono stage that would be worth keeping for sometime to come.

My apologies if there is a similar thread to this one. I couldn't find it.

Thanks for your time,

Mitch

[Ldg]

Welcome, archetypemusic. That's an interesting post.

I, for one, never realised there was such a thing as pro-audio phono stages. But, yes. And a quick look at the schematic for the Stanton 310b suggests it's the full monty, no comprise pro-audio design one might expect. Not to say it can't be bettered on a few points, but I really doubt many current preamps attain this.

In a sense, I suppose we've all heard them on the radio. Perhaps they were even used for master and production monitoring, who knows?

Anyways well worth a shot I would say, and I doubt they would disappoint, most likely offer great value. Not to mention a small piece of nostalgia, and heritage. Go for it !

[Steerpike_jhb]

The one I'm using was made in 1974 in the workshops of the SABC/SAUK (South African Broadcasting Corporation)

http://www.uploads.co.za/files/dozr1l0uh0u1fshem62b.jpg


http://www.uploads.co.za/files/0p3yjdzgb64bghyntvjz.jpg

[Ldg]

Brilliant ! Presumably not all such things have such 'bauhausian' functional elegance, though 19" rack might be common ?

[Steerpike_jhb]

There are also a few of these fakes (Studer ReVox TT EQ 1010) floating around South Africa. They were locally made and sold to the SABC without Studer's knowledge, by someone (who will not be named here) who had connections to the local Studer distributor.

I've not heard them, but I know someone who has a set - I'm still hoping to persuade him to sell it to me.

http://www.uploads.co.za/files/5y6c90yv09pno2g355qt.png


http://www.uploads.co.za/files/folfmnlimbc7ll1fjgn8.png

[archetypemusic]

Thanks ld. I found vinylengine when I was looking for a manual for my TT. Every search for a manual brought me here. That's providence.

Yep, I think I'm going to pick one of them up. It'll be interesting to compare a $100 Project Phono with a $100 used Stanton (which, if the current ATI phono is any indication, these units went for around $600 new).

Wow Steerpike, I never knew that Studer made a phono stage. It's more of a phono installation than a phono stage. It's a beautiful thing.

I think that why I like the look of Audio Research and BAT stages. They have the Studer vibe.

[Ldg]

At $100, the Stanton looks a steal. Go for it ! And, if you do, would be very interested to read about what you find.

[Steerpike_jhb]

Wow Steerpike, I never knew that Studer made a phono stage. It's more of a phono installation than a phono stage. It's a beautiful thing.

Even Studer didn't know they made phono stages either, until a few appeared with their trademark logo on them. As I said, they are fakes, made from pirated designs - I forget whose circuit is actually being used there. I also don't know if the SABC knew they were buying equipment that had nothing Studer in it at all - I suspect they didn't. The product must have been fairly good or it wouldn't have been accepted: the SABC of that time had a very big budget and took quality seriously. These RIAA amps were mostly (maybe exclusively) used with Technics SP10 Mk2s. There was also a completely non-Studer, but 'Studer' badged speed & cue control box.

[flavio81]

There's no love for them because they're not pushed by a marketing deparment, and they don't appear on the audiophile magazines, with reviewers complimenting the great "pace, rhythm and timing" of them.

[archetypemusic]

flavio, so true. Their intended market was definitely contractors doing installations and not audio fans concerned with "inky blackness".
I didn't realize that we had the Audiometric manual here on Vinyl'. Could someone here take a look at the schematics and give an opinion on the better design? If there is room for improvement which one would be easier to tackle. Also, from pictures that I've found of the tp84 the schematic doesn't quite match the actual circuit board..odd. Could the tp84 be a more refined version of the schematic available here?

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/stan ... 310b.shtml
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/gent ... tp84.shtml

Also, if anyone has good pictures of the inside of either of these units (or any other Broadcast phono pre), that would be great. I'm thinking about doing some mods but that depends on the design and layout.

[davidsrsb]

Nor will you find hand made boutique capacitors etc. What you will find is precision and high reliability

[empirelvr]

I used the Stanton 310B for years in my job. Quiet, dependable, and very accurate sound. Lots of loading options and choice of flat or RIAA eq. Very versatile. The only downside to the Stanton (and all other broadcast phono preamps) is they are balanced out and not optimized for single ended use.

[Ldg]

Could someone here take a look at the schematics and give an opinion on the better design?

They are distinct, but my preference on paper is for the Stanton. Mostly for attention to finer detail, and configurability. It's possible that the tp84 schematic is a sketch of kinds, and actual implementation differs, but component references are shown as type values, so probably not. But if either were available I'd get them. The Stanton for sure.

[archetypemusic]

I've found an issue with the Gentner Phono Stage Manual here in the library.

Audio Metrics (Allied Broadcast) contracted companies to make phono pres for them. Two of these companies were Radio Systems and Gentner. Radio Systems made the "Audio Metrics PA-1 preamp" and the "Audio Metrics Turntable Preamp". Gentner made the "Audio Metrics Tp-84 preamp".

The manual that is in http://www.vinylengine.com/library/gentner.shtml labeled "Audio-Metrics TP84" is, in fact, the manual by Radio Systems for their "Audio Metrics Turntable preamp" not the "Tp-84". This is why the schematic and layout don't match the interior photos of an Audio Metrics Tp-84.

Thanks Lucky. You cemented the feeling that there was something odd about the tp84 schematic and got me digging deeper.

I didn't know where to post this so I put this bit of detective work here. Now, to find an actual Tp-84 manual.

@davids - Funny you should mention boutique caps. I just saw these today http://v-cap.com/teflon-capacitors.php Hmmm,...a case of wine...a single capacitor...a case of wine...a single capacitor...it's a toss up (not really!).

@empirelvr - For myself, balanced outs aren't a problem but, I can see that they're another strike against these types of pres in most setups. Not only are they balanced, they only have barrier strips instead of output jacks.