Boboli, Benz Ace, Denon Dl304 (And An Absent Oc9) Do The Biz

[satanfriendly]

In fact, 2.1 grams was optimal

Except with the 'S' versions and the change of stylus profile 2.1 would be outside of manufacturers recommendation 1.6-1.9, which is why I settled at 1.7.

I will try the damping mode on the 774 when I return back from sea in August, but for the remainder of my leave I am so happy with 1.7 and no damping other than that when the arm was altered. Something must be right at this moment otherwise I wouldn't be saying so. Likewise with the Denon.

[BigE]

Try to top range from the manufacturers specs first. That can go a long way to taming upper mid-range glare.

I had that problem for years, until damping. It was traced to four problems: Insufficient tonearm effective mass insufficient tracking weight, insufficient damping and incorrect VTA.(refer to ld's calculator)

It is conceivable that other installations won't be as sensitive as mine, especially if the VTA has been adjusted too low -- the increased upper mid-range response is then a blessing. In reality it is mistracking....

But, when VTA is correct, VTF is correct, there is enough effective mass and damping is present, then *everything* gets a LOT better.

The match between tonearm effective mass and the cartridge compliance is critical. In my case, when listening to the denon 103D, I had to add 6.2 grams between headshell and cartridge. The difference was not subtle. It was as if a new cartridge/tonearm was in use. There was improvements in Bass response, body, detail, lowered noise, better ambient information retrieval, HF response cleared up....

Bear in mind that I was listening to an improper match for years, and others even said it sounded good. I was NOT prepared for the scale of the improvement.

[satanfriendly]

Increased VTF to 1.35 on the DL304 and it is sounding and tracking even better than I could imagine.

Telegraph Road has never sounded so good for a long time with lovely depth disappearing over the next door neighbours fence and beyond.

If I was to say anything about this cartridge is that it takes an aweful lot of playing around to get it on song, but worth it.

Bit late at night to go loud, but tomorrow is not that far away.

A thumbs up for anyone thinking, but be prepared to arse around to your hearts desire.

[jsawyer09]

Man, Satan, is this an OUTSTANDING post! I've owned three of the four you've reviewed here, and you've really got the hang of describing virtues. This should become a sticky for those who've always wondered about these mighty mid-range carts. Bravo, seriously.

[BigE]

Glad to see the you trying the higher VTF! That's the tip of the iceberg.

Right now, my 103D has about 7 grams of mass on the headshell of the SME IIIs, all the adjustment weights are back... Fortunately, it is tracking right on at 1.9.

This is perhaps the nicest sound I've got from it.

I understand that the GH220 is very lightweight. Maybe a dab of blutak on the headshell, rebalance and reset the VTF to 1.35 again could further improve things? If not blutak, a metal shim atop the cartridge could help too.

The blutak could also be put on as a ring, mid arm to control resonance -- rebalance and reset VTF again.

A friend of mine actually glued a penny to the top of his 103 with dental adhesive -- it's very brittle, and snaps off easily. Before doing that, he drilled out holes for the mounting bolts, and tested without gluing. There was a big improvement in using the unglued penny too.

A Canadian penny is about 2.3 grams, so that was the added mass. He says it went a long way to improve the bass solidity.

[satanfriendly]

Cheers for that JSawyer09, and I owe you a lot for guiding me towards the Benz. If ever I find myself in Denmark Township Minnasota (and who knows?) it's definitely a few beers your way!

[jsawyer09]

One never knows, sir...Glad to be of some help. PM me in the 1,000,000,000,000:1 chance you're ever my way. I'm just outside of Minneapolis/St. Paul.
Keep enjoying that/those carts. The Benz is pretty special, though!

[ripblade]

A friend of mine actually glued a penny to the top of his 103 with dental adhesive -- it's very brittle, and snaps off easily. Before doing that, he drilled out holes for the mounting bolts, and tested without gluing. There was a big improvement in using the unglued penny too.

A Canadian penny is about 2.3 grams, so that was the added mass. He says it went a long way to improve the bass solidity.

Hey BigE, fancy meeting you here! That's the 301 with the penny BTW. Typo, looks like...

As it happens I have the Mission 774 arm as well and needed the penny to balance the cartridge or the c/w would fall off the back. Turns out glueing the penny resulted in a slight improvement in bass definition and dynamics. It seems firmly coupling the mass to cartridge is better than simply adding mass to the system.

Satan, thanks for posting your impressions. I've tried the ACE, Glider and Wood (all pre 'S') on the Mission and find the Glider to be the best match overall. Also a few Denons (the 103, 103r w/ wood body, and the above 301) and find they are better suited to jazz or small ensemble. The Benz's have an uncanny ability to untangle complex passages while the Denons are better at assembling instruments into cohesive images. IMO, both brands work very well with the Mission, especially when damping is applied at the trough.

Judging by the photos it appears you have a few mods applied to the arm. I'm particularly interested in the head block mod. Is this another one of J7's creations?

Glenn

[satanfriendly]

The headblock was already drilled through when I bought the arm. Obviously gives more flexibility with threaded body's.

The c/w is a J7 creation and very useful as you have pointed out and raises the overall effective mass. I am not quite in to glueing pennies etc on headshells. All a bit old hat to me and there are better solutions. I once made a PVC/brass insert between the cartridge and the headshell for one cartridge and that also effectively throws some de-coupling in to the mix which can be kind with harsh trebles.

The remainder of the mods was a rewire (FOC because the originals were damaged in transit back to me) and the arm tube being sleeved out.

After some time I wish I'd had a finger lift made in a similar fashion to the one on the Hadcock. I rather like them.

[ripblade]

The headblock was already drilled through when I bought the arm. Obviously gives more flexibility with threaded body's.

The c/w is a J7 creation and very useful as you have pointed out and raises the overall effective mass. I am not quite in to glueing pennies etc on headshells. All a bit old hat to me and there are better solutions. I once made a PVC/brass insert between the cartridge and the headshell for one cartridge and that also effectively throws some de-coupling in to the mix which can be kind with harsh trebles.

The remainder of the mods was a rewire (FOC because the originals were damaged in transit back to me) and the arm tube being sleeved out.

After some time I wish I'd had a finger lift made in a similar fashion to the one on the Hadcock. I rather like them.

No, no! The penny was glued atop the cartridge, not the shell. I wouldn't glue a coin to a shell either. I normally don't glue coins onto cartridges either, but in this case I didn't mind.

Looking at the second photo in your OP, the block with the fingerlift on which you mounted the 304, that one's had more than the block drilled out...

edit: re read your post. That's a Hadcock....never mind

[bubba45]

Well SF I've enjoyed your review so much I went out and bought myself a 2nd hand DL304. I've only had a Denon DL160 and loved the sound; then I chased a DL301ii, but I've seen loads of reviews that ay the 304 is a revelation.
It arrived this morning and I did a fairly quick set up on my Technics SL1210 (don't grown) with a Jelco SA-370H and although I'm sure I haven't optimised set up, I can tell this is a beautiful cart.
100 ohms on my Trichord Dino, 1/2 damping on the arm and 1.3g VTF seems the best setting I've tried so far.

Oh man on some of my stuff it is just sublime.
Simply beautiful. Delicate and poised but with such depth and detail. I mean it's like I can actually not just hear individual notes, but parts of notes if that makes sense?
For the 1st time I really do hear the rise and fall of a note on a piano, the edge of a cimble, the ebb of a guitar string plucked and left hanging to fade naturally or the waining of a long note of a female voice.
The seller says this has about 20 hours on it and as his description is spot on for all the other gear he sold me, I have no reason to doubt him. This means that with a little more fine tuning and some burning in of this cart it will just get better and better.

So far played:
John Martyn - Solid Air,
Melody Gardot - My one and Only Thrill
Anthony & The Johnstons - The Crying Light
Pentangle - Reflections
Traffic - Low Spark of High Heeled Boys

Left to try on it:
About 1,000 other LP's starting this weekend!!!!!!!

[satanfriendly]

Of course I won't groan about the 1210 (But can you imagine the same on a PT? )

To be honest Bubba glad you're finding solstice in the 304.

Like you I bought mine with a claimed low hours and the description was spot on. I get this hunch as it improves with each play. Took some arseing around to get to where it is now, but partially down to the Hadcock being fussy and the Logic being a bit temperamental. Settled on similar to you with regards to VTF and loading with a very slight lift on the VTA. A little bit of coercing and it improves again and again.

I owe it to Steve195527 for guiding me towards the Denon. Everything he passed on to me was of great value.

Also nice at the same time to get my hands on the Benz thanks to another VE member.

That's what I like about this place. Between all the bitching and hand bags at 50 paces there are so many willing to assist.

[BigE]

A friend of mine actually glued a penny to the top of his 103 with dental adhesive -- it's very brittle, and snaps off easily. Before doing that, he drilled out holes for the mounting bolts, and tested without gluing. There was a big improvement in using the unglued penny too.

A Canadian penny is about 2.3 grams, so that was the added mass. He says it went a long way to improve the bass solidity.

Hey BigE, fancy meeting you here! That's the 301 with the penny BTW. Typo, looks like...

Nice to see you here! Yup typo.

[phonomac]

Hi Satanfriendly,
I have just upgraded from an Ortofon MC25FL to a Denon DL-304, partly inspired by this thread and others, and the improvement is substantial to my ears.

I would really like to get the DL-304 fully run-in, and get my ears tuned-in to it before trying anything else, but I have an opportunity to pick up (pardon the pun!) a Benz Micro ACE SL.

How would you rate the these two cartridges in comparison? One well ahead of the other? Comparable level but just different? Thanks for any input.

By the way I noticed on another thread that you are thinking about an Audio-Mods arm. If you want to go this way send me a PM - I may be able to save you some money.

Regards

Angus