P-Mount Suggestions please

[producer_ben]

Hey mike,
I've pm'd you to save clogging this feed up with irrelevent rubbish

[producer_ben]

Just to keep you folks posted on what I'm doing about this....
To begin with, I'm going with Flavio's comment about the original cart being a generally good performer. I've been to LP gear and ordered a hyper ellip version of the "original" stylus. I did want to try Jico's S.A.S, but with the festive season quickly approaching, I'm not quite able to justify it to the Bank Manager. The new Stylus should appear in the next few days (depending on postal situations).
This is going to be a long old road for me as I use all my TTs a lot. So keep posting any suggestions as I (or someone else in my position) are always taking notes and preparing for the next "groove rider".
Thanks again everbody

[fscl]

p_ben commits to:

To begin with, I'm going with Flavio's comment about the original cart being a generally good performer. I've been to LP gear and ordered a hyper ellip version of the "original" stylus. I did want to try Jico's S.A.S, but with the festive season quickly approaching,

Keep us posted on the sound and how you like this stylus replacement....

Fred and have a working EPC P22 cartridge too......

[flavio81]

Just to keep you folks posted on what I'm doing about this....
To begin with, I'm going with Flavio's comment about the original cart being a generally good performer. I've been to LP gear and ordered a hyper ellip version of the "original" stylus.

Ok but note that i put it as the third option, not first, not second. You might find some trackability problems on loud passages. Although then what i did is to carefully "massage" the cantilever so the rubber compliance would be less stiff, and this appeared to improve tracking. Seems the rubber on the HE stylus i bought was too stiff; i have a cheapo conical stylus for the Technics and it tracks loud passages without problems!!

Of course what i've done is dangerous, do it only if you are really careful and you're sure you won't break the cantilever.

[producer_ben]

carefully "massage" the cantilever

I got some sensual massage oils, some romantic mood lighting and "The Greatest Hits Of Showaddywaddy" ready and waiting for it's arrival

In all honesty, thanks for the advice, but as I've not done that before, I doubt I would risk it. You may have just been unlucky Flavio and were mailed a stiffie

I will let you all know the outcome. Stay tuned.....

[flavio81]

carefully "massage" the cantilever

I got some sensual massage oils, some romantic mood lighting and "The Greatest Hits Of Showaddywaddy" ready and waiting for it's arrival

In all honesty, thanks for the advice, but as I've not done that before, I doubt I would risk it. You may have just been unlucky Flavio and were mailed a stiffie

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Thanks for the good humor!!

[producer_ben]

Just so you folks know, I'm not being lazy and not posting up my thoughts on the replacement, it's still not turned up yet. LP gear are a little awkward to contact. Looks like it's been shipped now (finally), but not got to my impatient hands as yet.

[producer_ben]

After an uncomfortable wait, my LP Gear stylus turned up.
I have been playing it since 14.00 and it's now 16.15
I have tried a few things of varying ranges and styles, being new I'm giving it a chance. S's are sweet, the low is a little lacking, but as I say I'm gonna give it sometime to "wear in"
I'm currently running Leonard Bernstein's West Side Story (DG recording from '85). Seems nice and lively for the percussion, vocals come through very well and not a jumble. As Flavio did mention, I have noticed that in extremely "loud" passages, tracking does go a little off, still it's new. Whether I'm climatising to it or not I am not sure as it seems to have got better already.
As a side note, I do have a lot of 80s "pop" singles and compilations ( please don't hate me) and noticed that some don't track as well as others. Could this be due to cheap and recyled vinyl (which was quite common so I have heard) and dramatic compression? Again, in "loud" or extremely "busy" passages on these "chart toppers" (nod'arf pop pickers). I get this on the 440MLa on my rega too.
I am going to continue playing bits and pieces and see how it improves.
Before I go, currently on "America from West Side Story, and it's definately getting better. Things are smoothening out, the double bass in quiet parts is definately coming through closer to how it should be now and the great builds to the brass and timps don't sound quite so "limited" which it had done earlier (have played it through a couple of times you see).
Anyway, ciao for now
Ben

[sl-qd35]

Great thread guys! Very timely for my situation because I just acquired a pristine Technics SL-B210. The existing stylus on the stock P23 cartridge seems to be in great shape, but I'm interested in knowing more about upgrade alternatives -- that's how I discovered this thread.

producer_ben, do you have any follow-up comments regarding your HE replacement stylus from LP Gear?

flavio81, your list of three replacement stylii for the P23 is fantastic! In my searches, I had found the HE from LP Gear (in addition to their elliptical and conical varieties), but had no clue the Shibata and SAS replacement stylii were available.

Here's my question: given the BOTL nature of the SL-B210, where should I draw the line in terms of replacement stylii? In other words, are the SAS and Shibata overkill for the B210? For that matter, is the HE overkill for the B210?

There's no point in going overboard with a stylus upgrade if the turntable itself is the limiting factor, but I really have no idea what the potential is for the B210. Maybe it's a semi-decent performer that would benefit from as much stylus as I can throw at it?

Any comments/advice greatly appreciated. Happy 2010 to all!

[flavio81]

flavio81, your list of three replacement stylii for the P23 is fantastic! In my searches, I had found the HE from LP Gear (in addition to their elliptical and conical varieties), but had no clue the Shibata and SAS replacement stylii were available.

Here's my question: given the BOTL nature of the SL-B210, where should I draw the line in terms of replacement stylii? In other words, are the SAS and Shibata overkill for the B210? For that matter, is the HE overkill for the B210?

Not at all. Try it. Try the Shibata better.

But, mind you, some days ago i tried a Pioneer PC-250T instead of the Techics P202C and i liked it very much. Frequency response was noticeably more neutral (note that the Technics is not with its original stylus). FYI, the Pioneer is a disguised Audio-Technica AT101P or 3472P. The stylus (Pioneer) is a lowly bonded conical but, on the microscope, it is an interesting kind of bonded stylus since the shank is very short compared to other bonded styli. It tracks very well, even on inner grooves on most records. The P202C also tracked very well on inner grooves with the HE stylus, but i think the HE's stylus mass is higher, since the shank was longer than the Pioneer's.

As i wrote before, the Technics P202C with the HE stylus mistracked (distorted) on very loud passages. I bet this would not happen with the original technics stylus, since it was an ultra-low-mass (<0.2mg) diamond with an ultra-low-mass-ultra-high-stiffness boron cantilever... The Pioneer-branded Audio-Technica tracks like a champion.

So maybe you can check out Audio-Technica's p-mount offerings, starting with the AT92ECD. For the price, it is a total steal.

[sl-qd35]

Thank you, flavio81, for your reply. It's good to know that the SL-B210 is worthy of an improved cartridge/stylus. I think I will replace the stock P23 with a new AT92ECD as you mentioned. That way, I'll be able to share stylii between the B210 and my other TT, a SL-QD35 that has an AT3472L cartridge.

Last question -- is the 3472L simply an older version of the 3472P?

[flavio81]

Last question -- is the 3472L simply an older version of the 3472P?

No idea. But i bet it has the same magnetic generator with a different stylus. I recommended the AT92ECD because it comes with a 0.3x0.7mil elliptical, while others come with a 0.4x0.7mil elliptical or 0.7conical.

[sl-qd35]

... I recommended the AT92ECD because it comes with a 0.3x0.7mil elliptical, while others come with a 0.4x0.7mil elliptical or 0.7conical.

Yes, I follow your reasoning. I'll get the AT92ECD for the SL-B210 -- should be a nice step up from the stock P23's conical tip.

For the SL-QD35 that already has an older AT3472L cartridge, I'll get a new stylus. I have found HE and LC replacement stylii at LP Gear; do you know of any Shibata or SAS options for the 3472 body? I looked at Jico and a few other sites but did not find Shibata or SAS tips for the 3472. I'm just trying to find all options before deciding on which tip to go with.

Thanks, again, for your advice, flavio81.

[flavio81]

I have found HE and LC replacement stylii at LP Gear; do you know of any Shibata or SAS options for the 3472 body?

Shibata: $80 at turntableneedles, about $120 at LPgear.
MicroLine: $150 at LPgear. This should be an identical tip shape to SAS.