EMPIRE cartridges

[raymondo75]

Quess I'll have to buy 500id then and find out how it sounds.. they are still forsale in France for small amount of €.

[corners]

I have 2 Empire 2000 E III's, and one looks brand new, and sounds quite nice on my VPI with Profile arm. The older cartridge has a stylus that has a sticker on the top that says "Empire", but it sounds smoother than the "new" looking one. The older model also has less record noise, a lot less.
The "new" cartridge has "Empire I" on the stylus guard, and looks good under a scope, but has a lot of record noise. I love the sound when the music level rises above the noise level, but when levels are lower the noise can be annoying.

I have switched the stylus's from one cartridge to another, and the "new" always is noisier but with more resolution, and separation, soundstage.

What if anything can be done other than VTA,VTF, azimuth, (I have tried) ?

[Doug G.]

The mark on the front of Empire stylus guards is not a "1" or "I"

It is merely a vertical mark to aid in the cueing of the stylus onto the record.

Also, the 2000 series styli without the guard on them are the older ones. They have the gold "EMPIRE" sticker on the horizontal surface.

The newer styli will have a flip-down guard on them with "EMPIRE" embossed into the front of the guard.

Doug

[glrickaby]

The shape of the shaft going into the cartridge body is most commonly a
"heart" shape like on the 2000 series which will fit a mutitude of models.
I've put a 2000E III on an EDR 9 which is a perfect fit though obviously
an elliptical rather than an LAC stylus. The 2000T and Z series have
the same heart shape but with a narrower shaft. The older styles
have a round shaft and usually metal hinges on the stylus guard.
The 2000 E III type stylus will even fit many of the later plastic
bodies like the 190 on up numbers. Underneath the plastic, they
are the same metal bodies as the 2000 type. Another late type
has a little nub on the stylus unit and usually are not of the higher
end quality. Interestingly, some of the colors of the 2000 type
stylus will indicate diamond quality. Black is usually lowest,
then Green and then Red, then Clear etc., The stylus shaft holding
the diamond also becomes narrower as the line goes up. A 2000
series body with a .002 x.007 stylus, though not an EDR9, is
probably the best value soundwise. The Gold bodies became
plain metal as things evolved. Believe I read someplace that
the metal body units actually used an inside foil to generate
the sound which isn't exactly moving iron. A 4000 series body
is no different than a 2000 except possibly the color of the metal.
Some like the EXL10 are even painted black but basically a 2000
series with a conical stylus. Some 2000's are also black. Nice
open sound usually but not always the detail, depending upon
the diamond used. Generally NOS styli don't seem to deteriorate
with age in my experience which pretty much is with the 2000
series and after, timewise.

[Doug G.]

The stylus colors and configuration of the original 2000 series are thus:

2000 - Clear smoke - straight cantilever .7 mil. conical
2000E - Clear red - straight cantilever .3X.7 mil. bonded elliptical
2000 E/I - Clear green - straight cantilever .2X.7 mil. nude elliptical
2000 E/II - Clear blue - tapered cantilever .2X.7 mil. nude elliptical
2000 E/III - Clear (no color) - tapered cantilever .2X.7 mil. nude elliptical
2000Z - Gold - tapered miniature cantilever .2X.7 mil. elliptical

The difference between the models with the same type stylus is in the compliance and tip mass.

Actually, the 4000 series cartridge bodies are different than the 2000 series. Since they were originally designed for CD-4 quadraphonic use, the electrical specs are different. The DCR is typically 500 ohms instead of 1000 of the 2000 series. They were designed to work into a 100Kohm load instead of the 47Kohm load of most stereo cartridges.

[kcc123]

The 2000E IV has a purple body with .2X.7 mil. elliptical stylus(S912E).

[Doubleplay]

The 2000E IV stylus looks similar to the 500id. I guess they are identical.

Not a good tracker btw.

[Doug G.]

The 2000 E/IV was released a few years after the original 2000 series.

I do not know where it falls in the series as far as stylus or compliance, etc.

And no, the 2000 E/IV stylus and the 500ID stylus are not the same. The former fits the 2000 series cartridges, of course, and the 500ID stylus has a completely different carrier to fit the later OP style bodies.

Doug

[dlaloum]

Is the 4000D series the same body as the 4000XL series? (impedance/inductance)

ie: was the only difference the needles, or the generator as well?

thanks

David

[lini]

Just btw, over on the German Dual forum they had made a group buy of those 500IDs from that French eBay verndor. According to the new owners, the needle may come either bonded or nude.

Greetings from Munich & merry Christmas!

Manfred / lini

[Doug G.]

Is the 4000D series the same body as the 4000XL series? (impedance/inductance)

ie: was the only difference the needles, or the generator as well?

thanks

David

Hi David,

I wish I could answer your question definitively but I'm afraid I can't.

I have never measured a 4000XL and, although one would think that Empire would have used the same generator within the same series, you just never know with cartridge makers from back in those days.

The database indicates they are 47K but I still say you can't know for sure unless you can find original source literature with specs. or measure it.

In any case, it's not really that important. The 100K spec. was originally included in the CD-4 specs. to ensure the ultra sonic frequencies would not be attenuated before they got to the demodulator. A lower source impedence (500 ohms DCR) working into a higher load impedence (100K) would preserve these frequencies better than a higher source impedence (1000 ohms DCR) working into a lower load impedence (47K).

It has been found, however, that this spec. is probably the least important of the CD-4 specs. and many have used stereo cartridges fitted with Shibata styli successfully with CD-4, myself included.

The reverse is also true. Quad cartridge meant for CD-4 reproduction will work fine with a 47K load.

Doug

[Zaimejs]

I just bought a Garrard 95B and it has an Empire 20E cartridge on it. I know nothing about this, so I've been looking for any information regarding this cartridge's quality.

And how do I know if it is at the end of its life?

It seems to sound okay, but I know nothing about this sort of thing.

[dlaloum]

I have not heard of a 20e cartridge - could you post a photo?

In terms of cartridge life - short of something drastic happening cartridges are relatively immortal

The things that wear out are the Stylus primarily and in some cases the cantilever suspension wears out.

On a MM / MI cartridge these are both replaced when you exchange the stylus.

On Most MC designs, they are integral and you have to swap the entire cartridge, or send it away to get "retipped" at a specialist.

The only way to tell the state (wear level) of a stylus needle is under a 200x magnification microscope.... and it requires someone who knows what to look for even then.

The policy for most people is - if in doubt, change the stylus.

bye for now

David

[Zaimejs]

Thanks for the reply!

Here is the stylus on ebay.

That's exactly what I have. But I can't find much out about it online. I'm assuming it's really, really old.

Can a dull/worn needle make the sound duller? Quieter?

I will look into a new stylus, although I must admit, I don't know what I'm looking for.