EMPIRE cartridges

[Alec124c41]

Alec,
your poor experience with those cartridges may have been specific for the models you had. This is totally different from the excellence I had with several Empire models (880p, 888p, 1000 Z/E, 2000-E-III).
REgards,
bauzace50

It may have been specific to the samples I had. As I said, these were not new.

Cheers,
Alec

[33audio]

Astatic and Electro-Voice also sold original Empire stylii. There is usually no designation on the package. Sometimes the price was higher if it was near the top of the line.

Some of the more expensive ones were from Japan. Some appear to be JICO with a telescoping cantilever. The Japanese and the originals often sold for about the same high price.

Electro-Voice would often put a "SPECIAL" sticker on the package. May be Japanese, may be an original.

Sometimes the original would have its own part number and sometimes they would evidently just buy the originals and sell them at the same price as the generic.

The catalogs would sometimes give an indictation if it was an original, but not always.

It is illegal for an aftermarket stylus supplier to put the manufacturer's name on a generic product, but they often put the manufacturer's part number on it.

If it says Empire, Shure, Stanton, etc. it was made by them, no matter what the price. Mark

[bauzace50]

Hello,

the Empire 2000 Z had been on my wish list since 1976, but I never got myself to purchase one until available from a seller in eBay this week.
I purchased it, and it will be arriving in about a week.
From memory, it seems that the Stanton 881 S dates from the next generation of cartridges, and the Stanton may well be better. But the 2000 Z is one elite performer from that brand even considering their latter models (including the EDR.9 and the LAC models).

It would be interesting to hear how the 2000 Z would perform in comparison with other moving Iron models, such as 681 EEE, Grados, ADCs, and such. But I feel a comparison with the 881 S would be no contest

Regards,
bauzace50

[dean man jim]

Hello,

...But the 2000 Z is one elite performer from that brand even considering their latter models (including the EDR.9 and the LAC models)...

Agreed, and please report after letting it run in for a dozen hours or so. Do you have any of the above models you listed, to compare it to? On another forum, a poster's $4K lomc sits idle while his 1000 ZE/X stays on his arm...

Regards, Jim

[bauzace50]

dean man jim,

Yes, I have one 1000 Z/E, but it seems to have something amiss. Its sound is notably treble shy, although still listenable with treble augmentation from the preamp controls. It still is a super tracker!

I had one EDR.9, but it is gone now. I loved it, but had too many cartrdiges at the time.

No more Empires at present, sorry,
bauzace50

[Cobra2]

Did you try an easier load on the 1000Z? ~75k ?
(some of the "older" models often respond good to this..)

Arne K

[bauzace50]

HI,

seems like the 1000 Z/E will profit from the higher resistive loading. I may get into this after all...but no rush, yet.

@ ,
yes, glad to have this joint venture, and share notes!

Regards,
bauzace50

[DIMAGGIO55]

I have an opportunity to purchase an Empire 2000 E/III with it's stylus that is NEW IN THE BOX (original Empire scientific) for about $165.00.
I've been using an Empire 4000 D/III with a Transcriber 769QD and a 770QD replacement stylus for stereo lps. I've never been thrilled with this combinations sound.

Should I purchase the 2000 E/III and is it a fair price as it's never been opened.
Thanks
Arnold

[bauzace50]

Hi,
to repeat a reply in another thread today: I had one 2000 E-III around year 1978 and loved it. Purchase price was around $30.00 from discounters of the time.
Now I have two other Empires (1000 Z/E, and 2000Z). Both suffer from treble rolloff, which is UNcharacteristic of the freshly manufactured samples. This leads me to suspect some sort of deterioration of these cartridges that comes with age.

I would not purchase one myself, except with a money-back guarantee covering this consideration.

Good luck,
bauzace50

[DIMAGGIO55]

bauzace50,
Thanks for your thoughts. I am concerned that even new, it can deteriorate with age just sitting in the box. There is a rubber guide that hold the stylus in the cantilever of the cartridge that can breakdown (or not) with age.
Thanks again for you thoughts...
I also had a 1000z/e years ago and that was the nicest Empire I've owned.
$165.00 is steep with no assurance.
Arnold

[EdAInWestOC]

Guys,
I went through several Empires as well as the Shures, ADCs and many others back in my MM cartridge days. It seemed back in those days the focus was on tracking ability, VTF and gee wiz tecno babble. Too little attention was paid to the sound quality and marketing was based on technical claims and glitzy packaging.

My recollection was the Empires were indeed better then the Shures and the ADCs were my personal favorite.

For the record I never cared for ATs or Signets (the same animal...all too bright) and Pickering and Stanton left me unimpressed. Unfortunately I can't remember all of them. Only the Shures left an impression (good marketing, inflated claims, always not musical enough) and the ADCs. I can't recall why I left the Empires.

Ed

[stumpy57]

Hi guys,

Intersting subject !

I have the same problem as the author :

I am looking for a budget cart and I have found two empire models
that seem to be a good deal.

1) A 600lac
2) A 500id

Before at all, do you think It is a good idea to buy an NOS cartridge in lieu and place of a new budget cart like AT120 or Orto MC1 Turbo ?

If I buy the empire what would be the better choice ?

The 500 is half less expensive as the 600.

Both carts seem have the same body the onlyb difference seem to be the stylus.

Thanks

Alex

[GrumpyGazza]

Well it's been awhile; I mentioned last year that I was going to change the Empire2000E over for the AT95E cart and i did and thought it a very nice smooth sound. Today the cantilever on the AT95 died somehow so I put the Empire back into service - and what a revelation - I had been complaining to some about the lack of bass on my TT, but with the Empire it's back there in bucket loads. Played a few tracks from the Allman Brothers Live at Filmore East LP and I am rapt . The Empire will stay.
Just wondering why the AT95E might have lost some bass and WHY the cantilever collapsed. It is less than a year old

[Cobra2]

Well it's been awhile; I mentioned last year that I was going to change the Empire2000E over for the AT95E cart and i did and thought it a very nice smooth sound. Today the cantilever on the AT95 died somehow so I put the Empire back into service - and what a revelation - I had been complaining to some about the lack of bass on my TT, but with the Empire it's back there in bucket loads. Played a few tracks from the Allman Brothers Live at Filmore East LP and I am rapt . The Empire will stay.
Just wondering why the AT95E might have lost some bass and WHY the cantilever collapsed. It is less than a year old

IMHO, Empire (from this body-type) and AT pickups are as different in sound as apples & oranges...Empires will be softer, with midrange-focus, the AT is "sharp/punchy", with emphasis on top & bottom.

Empires compared, update:
01) 66/x ; 500ohm/225mH
02) 1000E.D; 525ohm/275mH
03) 3000 I; 530ohm/280mH
04) 2000 E; 500ohm/300mH
05) 3000 II; 500ohm/350mH
06) EXL-10; 500ohm/350mH
07) 4000 XL I; 500ohm/330mH
08) 4000 XL II; 500ohm/330mH
09) 2000 E/III; 1kohm/570mH
10) 250ES; 1kohm/630mH
All these can use same stylus.

They all share the "family-sound", slightly soft, very "analog". With the better needles, they are close to my Grace F-9, great midrange, likes to be loaded from 62-75k ohm for best top-end.



Arne K