Wet playing revisited

[chalmh]

The DL103 is a MC type cart. As an MC type cart I'm sure that the inductance is very low compared to a MM cart. Thus it has a very low impedance on the lower frequency range (less sensitive). To overcome that obstacle, the tracking force is greater (which makes the cantilever movement larger at lower frequencies compared to high freqencies signals). I think this is the reason why there is almost no difference between dry/wet on Trackside's system.

[Trackside]

The DL103 is a MC type cart. As an MC type cart I'm sure that the inductance is very low compared to a MM cart. Thus it has a very low impedance on the lower frequency range (less sensitive). To overcome that obstacle, the tracking force is greater (which makes the cantilever movement larger at lower frequencies compared to high freqencies signals). I think this is the reason why there is almost no difference between dry/wet on Trackside's system.

Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever Tracking force is high on the DL-103 because it's a low compliance cart designed for high mass tonearms. MC carts can be high, med or low compliance. Cantilever movement is the same in any cart as long as it's not mistracking as it just follows the groove - no difference between LF or HF.

[michaelhigh]

1) Spin Clean, 3 to 5 times clockwise, then counter, with prescribed distilled water and solution. 2) Gently shake LP over reservoir till dripping slows. 3) Play side 1 (using foam or felt mat). 4) Repeat 1. 5) Repeat 2. 6) Play side 2. 7) Gently wipe dry with microfiber towel. Eight) Replace in clean sleeve till the next playing. 9) Stop buying and collecting damaged LP's. 10) Cull less than near mint LP's for a second stack. 11) Segregate the better condition LP's. 12) Enjoy the cleanest, quietest playback I've experienced in 50 years of music loving. 13) Repeat till out of records, at which time, switch to 24/192 computer files on shuffle while mat dries.

No rusty cantilevers, no stylus damage, no rotted rubber grommets, no nothing but maximum enjoyment with no drawbacks whatsoever. You'll actually find yourself playing the B stack more because of how much improved their playback is after a full round of this plan, as opposed to whatever you were(n't) doing before.

Life is too short to second guess what obviously works. Beware fuzzy math and bunk science. Let your ears decide. Werd.

[VinylScience]

I like it wet! Reduced friction, less cracks and pops and therefore the safe feeling to do the right thing I got a Lenco type wet player. The first brush dissolved during play and made a mess on the record. The shop replaced it but the new one is not much better. I had to change that. So I finally took a piece of Basotect, a open porous foam used in room acoustics. With a pair of scissors I made a long round piece that fits into the opening for the brush, just big enough so it stays securely in place. I make sure that enough foam sticks out and is flat to contact the record. So far the result is great, a smooth nice film of liquid. No hairy stuff on the record or the stylus, less crackle and pop. My recommendation for the day.

[davidsrsb]

I made a test comparing the spectrum of the 3 KHz test tone for wow and flutter track on the HFS75 record both dry and wet. G1042 cartridge in SME3009S2 arm.

is the dry playing


is played wet

Beware of scale differences, but it is clear that the noise spurs and floor between the tone and its harmonics are much quieter played wet. This implies the turntable speed was more stable played wet.

[Alec124c41]

It does not imply that the turntable speed was more stable.
It does imply that the broad-band noise floor is lower, presumably because there is less friction between the stylus and the vinyl.
Very interesting to see. Thanks for posting this.

Cheers,
Alec

[VinylScience]

Fabulous! Perfectly agree, get similar data, but too much huzzle to upload it.... If is measures right, it will sound right!

In my view playing wet gives the better sound. The problem might be this. The commercial liquids contain cheap ionic surfactants, like SDS. These surfactants, frequently used in washing liquids of all sort, will crystallize once the solvent evaporates giving rise to the much disliked crackle and pop if played dry. Played wet the crystal dissolve and there is no problem. I use a mixture of water, isopropanol and non-ionic surfactants, that are liquid. No crystals, no crackle. Occasionally I wash them with a simple spin clean machine and the same mixture. And I check my needle now and then because it will gunk up.

Cheers!

[ornsman]

Hello all!

I have read through this thread with interest. I'm interested in some advice on using this method to play 'acetates', or otherwise known, dubplates

The isopropyl mixture suggested for vinyl is a no-no in this instance as alcohol is damaging to the acetate (although infact nitrocellulose). So I wonder, what other softening agent might be used?

I'll be using a Technics SL1210 turntable with a Ortofon Concorde DJ/S cartridge, which has a spherical stylus. (elliptical stylus are available in replacement).

As a dubplate it wont have the tight grooves of a vinyl LP, rather a maximum of 7 mins is recorded onto each side. Will I need to use less tracking weight, or adjust the anti-skating?

Would really appreciate any advice also with perhaps cleaning prior to the wet playing

[VinylScience]

Since I changed the brush with a piece of basotect in my wet player I noticed that new records leave a black residue on the basotect after playing. So cleaning new records before playing is strongly encouraged.

Another issue is that the wet player does not follow the grooves very precisely. Either it runs to quickly to the center or it stops somewhere on the record. If I adjust the distance of the wet player to the record it will cover the first or last part of the record. I am not sure what the reason is. It does not depend on the amount of liquid in the wet player nor does it agree with skating. For instance I put a coin on the end of the arm to increase weight - no effect. Any clues or ideas how this issue can be resolved?

[gaslover]

I've had this issue... I use a small brush (like a dustbug) to lay the water down, and it tracks perfectly as long as I have the post it's attached to tilted back about 10 degrees. You'll have to experiment. This bias tends to keep it from tracking faster than the groove spirals.

[Alec124c41]

I found that the speed a Dustbug traverses the grooves is dependent on the overhang, or underhang. E

Cheers,
Alec

[gaslover]

It also is affected by the length of its arm. A longer arm (about 12") works better because it is describing a much larger arc; more of a straight line than a 6" arm... of course this means mounting it off of the turntable.

[ornsman]

Alec124c41 I appreciate your help for the other two posters but would be nice if I could have some acknowledgement of my queries

Original posters - flavio81 you've clearly done some research, would like to know your opinions on how this method could relate to acetate discs?

Acetates are not new things, so maybe a pointer to another area of the forum, or even another thread might be good. Cleaning, needle choice, these also relate to what I am looking for

Since it is adviced to reduce the antiskate during wet play, I guess the friction is reduced (aquaplaning), i.e. the effective VTF has been reduced during wet play.

This reduced VTF could cause increased wear.

However, this may be compensated by an increased VTF.

Was any of this concluded on; what sort of adjustment should be made to the anti skate - can anyone confirm? (Also what is VTF)

[davidsrsb]

VTF is Vertical Tracking Force ie the stylus pressure (1.5gm or whatever)
I have no evidence that my VTF is wrong when wet. I get no mistracking (test records pass at maximum levels). Too low a pressure causes mistracking, which causes rapid wear. Too high pressure will compress the cantilever too much and will also cause increased wear