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DEFT 2: Bicycle: Mission accomplished!

the thin end of the wedge

Postby bauzace50 » 17 Jun 2009 01:39

@ ripblade,
thanks for the inquiry!
The end of the queue goes all the way to September, so we are now talking October, and even November to close the cycle. Wow. Then it comes back to me by...December? We'll get together later for shipping address and other details.
Goodness. Wonder how Johhny Walker keeps on going strong.
REgards,
bauzace50

OK: what about German? What does "zu" mean in German? And is "alum" a correct abbreviation in German? I mean, it's the only language that sounds remotely connected.
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Postby java » 17 Jun 2009 16:23

bauzace50 wrote:@ java & @ ripblade:
here goes! 8) If java takes care of summarizing the findings at the end of the Bicycle, and, if ripblade takes care of finding what "Zualum" is (just ask from the seller), then each one of you would be included at the end of the queue, to evaluate this cartridge in your own home. You would also comment on your findings.
What say?
bauzace50


Well, I am not sure, I am the right bloke to summarize anything, but am willing to give it a go ... :roll:

My current vinyl front end is not what I'd prefer, (previously had a Linn LP12/Ekos/Karma), which I enjoyed, tho I prefered the Ittok more than the Ekos ... , the Ekos is a better arm, I just did not enjoy it as much as the Ittok ...

What the hell, put me on the end of the bicycle tour ... , if the fates are kind to me, I just might have a better table by then ... :lol:
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Postby bauzace50 » 17 Jun 2009 17:07

Hi java,
the idea of this thread is about "finding" usefully for somebody wanting to spend $100.00 in a cartridge. It's not about qualifying the participant!

The great thing about having several users is that it discloses two things: (1) different experiences and opinions, and (2) different systems which might resemble ones owned by other VE members.

This process is not intended to make the cartridge perform at its ultimate best. No. It is about finding out how it behaves under different situations, to determine how valuable it might be to people under any of those situations. There will not be a "typical" setup. It is more likely that many VE members might have something similar to the different ones in the Bicycle laps.

So, you've got the hardest part of all: making a resumed recollection of all the preceding eight (?) laps. You don't need to be an audiophile. But it helps if you are an editor...your job is not with the cartridge but with other people's words.

I suspect there will NOT emerge an average/genralized opinion. NO. Rather, I imagine there will be different results to apply to different situations and preferences. We may probably demonstrate that there is no "average cartridge" applicable to "the average enthusiast".

By the way, I read about the different types of coffee, and I do enjoy Java!
We'll get together about the Bicycle queue later on. There are weeks to go yet, maybe all the way into November.
REgards and thanks,
bauzace50
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Postby java » 17 Jun 2009 19:04

bauzace50 wrote:Hi java,
the idea of this thread is about "finding" usefully for somebody wanting to spend $100.00 in a cartridge. It's not about qualifying the participant!



Understood ... , just that so far this cartridge, would appear to be an "over achiever" if I may use that term ... , i.e. has good value ...


The great thing about having several users is that it discloses two things: (1) different experiences and opinions, and (2) different systems which might resemble ones owned by other VE members.



Agreed ...

Every system difference introduces variables, different opinions help "average" out the differences ...


This process is not intended to make the cartridge perform at its ultimate best. No. It is about finding out how it behaves under different situations, to determine how valuable it might be to people under any of those situations. There will not be a "typical" setup. It is more likely that many VE members might have something similar to the different ones in the Bicycle laps.



That may be so, tho, I'd like to be able to judge it on a better deck than the one I currently have - my CD player upgrade (recent) highlights the short comings of my current deck, ... , who knows ... :cry:


So, you've got the hardest part of all: making a resumed recollection of all the preceding eight (?) laps. You don't need to be an audiophile. But it helps if you are an editor...your job is not with the cartridge but with other people's words.



Hmm ... :)

Have started the collecting bit ...

Will provide a URL for "preview" purposes once I start editing, but I think, looking at what I have already collected, there will be a long, and an abridged version ...


I suspect there will NOT emerge an average/generalized opinion. NO. Rather, I imagine there will be different results to apply to different situations and preferences. We may probably demonstrate that there is no "average cartridge" applicable to "the average enthusiast".



A low average is to be expected, but I would not be surprised if the average turns out to be a bit higher than expected either ... :lol:


By the way, I read about the different types of coffee, and I do enjoy Java!
We'll get together about the Bicycle queue later on. There are weeks to go yet, maybe all the way into November.
Regards and thanks,
bauzace50


I enjoy my coffee, (my wife thinks I drink too darn much of it for my own good), different types, tho I think good Turkish/Greek coffee is the best there is ... , and I drink it out of standard sized coffee mugs, not the (small) traditional size cups

No rush for the other details, whenever you are ready or have time ...

Russell
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Hours and hours

Postby Alabama978 » 17 Jun 2009 20:54

B50,

can't see the reviewers wearing it out, not unless the rest listen 24/7 for three weeks each :wink:

I expect there will be hundreds of hours of use left by the time it gets back to you.

I'm about to do some more listening :D
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Postby bauzace50 » 17 Jun 2009 22:06

@ Alabama978,
don't to worry. The rest of your life depends on this! :lol: :!:

@ java,
Here's a playful suggestion, which might even mean a career change for you :!: If you work in a large corporation, you will probably have one "House Internal Magazine", or "House Organ" as some call it.
If so, you can get together with the Editor to get a feel for that. Otherwise, you can contact some editor of a newspaper or magazine who would be willing to play along with you in explaining the intricacies of editing your proposed project!
Otherwise, do as you wish. :wink:
Thanks,
bauzace50
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Postby java » 18 Jun 2009 16:16

bauzace50 wrote:
Here's a playful suggestion, which might even mean a career change for you :!: If you work in a large corporation, you will probably have one "House Internal Magazine", or "House Organ" as some call it.
If so, you can get together with the Editor to get a feel for that. Otherwise, you can contact some editor of a newspaper or magazine who would be willing to play along with you in explaining the intricacies of editing your proposed project!
Otherwise, do as you wish. :wink:
Thanks,
bauzace50


I usually end up doing my own thing ... , but I have asked a couple of "scribblers" I know to advise, and give some input, which hopefully will help reduce the number of "revisions" required ... , which means I would be able to listen to a few more LP's ... :roll: :lol:
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Postby ripblade » 19 Jun 2009 00:10

Gee, I hope glibness is not a huge requirement for participation or I'm in big trouble.

Actually I may be underqualified for this mission on more technical grounds: It's been literally 27 years since I last had an MM cartridge with a replaceable stylus on my system. It was an ADC XLM III. I admired it for it's neutrality but never looked back when I replaced it with a Mission 773 HOMC in '81. Same neutrality, but much more life!

Lately the closest I've come is a B&O MMC20CL that came with a deck I bought for $100. I assumed the cartridge was toast when I agreed on the price but when I took a closer look it appeared to be in fine shape, so I tried it out on the Mission arm. It tracked beautifully at 1 gm! Alas, the 1/2 adapter wasn't up to snuff, so I contacted Soundsmith but they're uninterested in mounting it for me. What to do with it I'm not sure, but what a find!

Since my moment of realization back in the early 80's I've pretty much consigned myself to MC cartridges: Denon DL 103 (my nomination for bargain MC) and 110; Linn Klyde; Shinon Red and Titan; Sumiko Bluepoint, and presently a Benz Micro Glider H2.

The Deft 2 has some pretty big shoes to fill if it's going to gain my attention. It has to be dynamic above all, but with detail and harmonic fidelity throughout the spectrum. I wonder if it's feet are big enough to push those pedals....

Cheers,
Glenn
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Postby bauzace50 » 19 Jun 2009 00:58

ripblade,
your only mission here is to explore the cartridge and share your findings with the VE community.
To reiterate, this is pertinent to enthusiasts who would want to spend very little money on a good cartridge. This excercise wants to identify one good candidate for consideration. There are many candidates, and this one was chosen for reasons explained in the thread.

This is NOT intended to plug the cartridge, but to examine it honestly.

Your invitation was tendered because you expressed interest, and your acceptance means whatever you want it to mean! Of course one would hope that the participation of EACH member of this Bicycle is to be of real value to members of the VE community.

A sense of value in this case would be to determine if the cartridge is worthy of consideration by phono enthusiasts n this price range.

This may be a mini-laboratory showing to oneself how one participates with the world and its people.

REgards,
bauzace50
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DEFT2 Review

Postby Alabama978 » 19 Jun 2009 09:24

A review of the Deft2 Cartridge.

Deft 2 – The Journey continues

I was excited to have the opportunity to test the Deft2 thanks to the generosity of B50 and his “bicycle” idea. The Deft2 arrived in the post in what might be called a bombproof package (great packing b50). As I unpacked it and gave it a first look I was pleased to see that the stylus had parallel sides making it an easy job to align. One negative is that the stylus, already noted by the first reviewer is quite loose in the cartridge body :( but more about that later.

Let me say before you read on that in the world of audiphools I am a rank beginner. I've had vinyl for many years but was content with various AR MM carts including the C77. Last year I got back into vinyl exchanging my Rega/AR TT for a new Michell Gyro, initially with a good S/H Goldring Eroica and a few months ago I bought the Benz Micro Ace Med MC cart. This review therefore is a bit apple and pears as I do not have much in the way of low cost carts to compare the little Deft2 with. Nevertheless I hope my review will give readers some idea of how it sounds and performs. Just don't expect real technical stuff, it's all about my personal perception of the music.

Lets get on with it... :)

I removed my Benz Ace medium MC from the SME 309 headshell and quickly installed the Deft2. One nice touch is the semi-captive nuts, a tiny slot on one side of the nut makes it grab the screw a little and can be tightened easily by hand before a gentle nip up with a suitable screwdriver.

9944

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After connecting the leads to the rear of the cartridge I mounted the headshell back on the 309 arm and began the alignment. I used the SME protractor for a quick alignment, balanced and set the arm at a VTF of 1.7gm and checked the alignment using the HFNN test record protractor. This was the first cart I had aligned using a new 8 X Loupe I had bought after reading and seeing VE member Pat's post on the “linen tester” and as one who is no longer a youngster I found it a great help. After re-checking the VTF it was ready to play.

9943

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First record was the HFNN test LP. I checked the Bias tracks and the Deft2 sailed through all but the last one at 18dB, but to it's credit only one side display any distortion, and the Benz does not track it without distortion either. I don't entirely place my trust in test records so to finish off I played my favourite test track “Your Latest Trick” from the Dire Straits Brothers in Arms LP. I know this track so well that I can hear any difference in carts, but my main aim here was to set the Bias. I always use this track and the Guru listening method to set the Bias, and even though some members have stated they cannot hear any difference, to me it is very noticeable when you hit the “sweet spot” on the Bias setting which unsurprisingly was around 1.75.

Let's hear some music...

By this time I was itching to hear some music without having to think about the technicalities. I have a number of LP's I like to play with a new cart, some based on the recommendations I found on the TNT audio web site. First up was Bob Marley's “Uprising” LP and the track "The Real Situation". I chose this because there are drums and a real heavy bass beat interacting and makes for a difficult tracking test, in fact one reviewer in TNT found that his Goldring cart leaped out of the groove! The Deft tracked beautifully with a tight and coherent bass and if you like reggae it will have you toe tapping before too long.

One thing was bugging me from the start and that was the loose stylus fit. The suggestions to use Bluetack were too much to resist! I rolled out a tiny sausage shape until it was about the thickness of a sewing needle. Taking two pieces I applied them to the sides of the stylus and slid it back on to the cart, rechecking the VTF. The difference was clearly audible and widened the soundstage and depth a little.

The picture below shows the stylus with Bluetack after removal. One could perhaps get a better result by carefully placing a strip at the front edge, but I was concerned that it might contaminate the cantilever so limited it's use to the sides.

NOTE: Stylus had the guard fitted to protect it while taking photos.

9945

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Next up was another favourite artist (warning some may find this part disturbing and may like to scroll to the next Para :-)) Leonard Cohen's “I'm your Man” LP, and the track “Everybody Knows”. Cohen's voice was as good as I have heard it on any cart, but with the Deft2 it had a sort of slight huskiness, not distorted and not unpleasant, but just different. I can't work out why but could it be that the stylus shape goes much deeper than any others I have tried and I'm hearing the true voice on the recording? The background instruments and singers were all there in a nice identifiable soundstage but a little subdued compared to the Benz. At this point I was quite amazed at how good this budget cart sounded, but I tried to suppress the feel good factor and think in a neutral manner.

Dire Straits made a return with “Ride Across The Water” from Brothers in Arms. Another good track to test bass response and timing. The Deft2 handled this one well but not as well as my Benz, it just seemed a bit muddled at times.

Another favourite Joe Jackson's “Be My Number Two” from the brilliantly recorded “Body and Soul” album. Piano sounded natural and I got to hear the halls ambiance, something for which this recording is renowned. The Deft2 gave a good account of itself on this track with Joe's voice sounding as it should.

A live album from the much underrated Paul Brady followed. The track “Crazy Dreams” is a favourite one of mine and because it is live you get to hear the audience at times during the song. This came through clearly and in the same place in the soundstage as with previous carts. Paul's voice is quite high pitched and on a bright hi fi system becomes very tiring (his CD's sound awful to me even on my balanced system). The Deft2 showed no sign of being over bright, however like the Cohen track it just sounded a bit “different”. His voice was there in the same spot on the stage but slightly closer to the listener, and the percussion a little bit less clear.

Now to a favourite – Sara K's – Waterfalls album. I've raved enough about this one on VE so I'll say no more except to say that three tracks were played and all were impressive, solid tight bass and good reproduction of her very dynamic voice and guitar.

Suzanne Vega – Solitude Standing

Another favourite artist. Not only do I love her voice but her music blends a raft of percussion effects, guitar and harmonising voices in a way that is perfect to test carts. On “Language” and “Calypso” the Deft gave a good account of itself, separating the subtle percussion effects but not as cleanly as my more expensive cartridge. At this stage I had run out of time and removed the Deft2 and carefully packed it up for the next leg of the journey.

Summary.

This cartridge in my opinion represents great value. I am just sorry I cannot compare it with similar priced more budget carts, however I will stick my neck out and say that it's extremely close to my memory of the Goldring Eroica's performance. The detail and handling of microdynamics in complicated passages of music was remarkable from such a modestly priced cart. If I had never heard a cartridge at the Benz Ace level then I could happily live with a Deft2. At 4X or 5 X the price the Benz has a more detailed overall sound that I like, and on replacing it I heard that clearly on some of the tracks tested. That said I am amazed at the performance of the little Deft2, it could easily reside on my system and provide enjoyable music for a long time, and in my humble opinion I'd say it provides 80% of the Benz performance. The slight differences I noticed on some voices were not objectionable and may actually sound better to some other listeners, it's just hard to tell which his more true to the artist. If I had several carts maybe I would find others that have a common sound to those voices, but would that confirm they were reproducing the original accurately?

The cart provides a very detailed and enjoyable sound, not bright or harsh in my opinion, but neutral. It was certainly not let down by it's tracking ability either. During the sessions I played a bit with the VTF which has a wide range 1.25 – 2.5 GM but settled for 1.8 as it sounded “right” to me.

I have added about 3 Hrs to the cart so I guess it is getting close to run in. I just regret that time restraints preventing me from listening more to this cart and being able to compare it with other similarly priced carts would have been more informative for the readers.

I am however looking forward to the next reviewers findings as he has tested many similar priced carts and provided us with much information.

Once again a big thank you to B50 for the opportunity to listen to the Deft2.

Equipment used...

Michell Gyro SE
SME 309 arm
Project Tube Box Phono Stage
Chord Chameleon Interconnects
Mystere KT 88 Amp
Triangle Antal Speakers

Addendum

B50 requested info on the loading of the Phono stage.

The Deft2 played through the Project Tube box at the standard 40dB gain and 47K loading. I would have liked to have had my new phono project up and running with a wide variation of cartridge loading but sadly it is dismantled for modification.
With respect to varying the VTF I did not have enough time to make many fine tunings to the VTF but my impression with the 309 arm and Gyro was that 1.8 gms sounded best. I did not find that other settings were dramatically different, though I did not get above 2 gms due to time constraints.
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Postby bauzace50 » 19 Jun 2009 09:50

Alan,
Thankyou! The credit for packing in a bombproof manner goes to ! I actually sent it to him in such an unsafe manner that I apologized to him for the flimsy packing (but I chose between shipping at that precise moment, versus waiting two days for a stronger packing).

Thank for the packing, and Alan for your time, dedication, and the clear descriptions and photos!
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Postby java » 20 Jun 2009 05:59

Would you guys please try and state how many hours you spend in enjoying the company of the Deft2 ... , it would help me lending a modicum of structure to my editorial ... , not that I think it will change a great deal sound wise, from now, till the end of the tour ... , but one never knows ...

Thanks,

Russell
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Hours

Postby Alabama978 » 20 Jun 2009 10:18

3 Hrs on my log sheet and extra time setting the bias so maximum I make it was 3.5 Hrs.
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Re: Hours

Postby java » 20 Jun 2009 14:01

Alabama978 wrote:3 Hrs on my log sheet and extra time setting the bias so maximum I make it was 3.5 Hrs.


Thanks, you did give a time towards the end of your review, my request was a reminder to those to follow, including myself :roll: .

Stop watch accuracy is not expected or required, just something along the line of 10 LP sideds played, give about 15 minutes a side, equals 150 minutes, which will give 2 1/2 hours ... , if playing classical music, I feel 20 minutes a side can be factored ...
This is not mission critical ... , so enjoy the Deft2's company while it is with you ...

Russell

PS. I replied to this before, but the post did not seem to make it, to the board, so I am trying again. :D
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