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Systemdek IVe Upgrade

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Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Ruben1 » 08 Aug 2012 17:17

I currently have this table which includes the external power supply/speed control unit and want to know which tables (brand/model) represent a clear improvement as far as an upgrade. I currently have the stock profile arm but was thinking of upgrading to a Graham 2.2 or similar arm so the arm is not my concern/question.
I want to know what the next step up is in my audio evolution with regards to my front end/TT if I want to hear a clear improvement in sound reproduction. I realize this is subjective but I still want to hear your opinion. I also realize I can spend $20,000 and get a better table but this is not what I want to know. Basically, what I want to know is the next step up the ladder regarding TT choice for me to hear a clear improvement?
Thank you for any and all opinions you can provide.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby duficity » 08 Aug 2012 18:58

YOu need to decide whether you need or want a suspended or ridging table. What is it about your table that you think is lacking? Bass, soundstage, imaging, PRAT, musicality, dynamics? Suspended tables tend to sound a certain way and rigid sound another. In my experience, suspended tables tend to sound quieter, more musical, have better flow and smoother highs. rigid high mass tables tend to have strong bass, more dynamics and a tighter sound. thats without going into the differences between idler, belt and direct drive.

Once you get to a certain point, these differences are miniscule, more so depending on the music you listen to. For small acoustic bands, jazz, blues or chamber you might want more detail and soundstaging, so a suspended table might suit your needs more. For classic rock or orchestral, you might prefer the impact of a rigid table.

For new tables, I think the break point on mid level to high end is about $2000, plus arm and cartridge. Excellent tables in that range include the VPI Classic, Sota Star and Nova, Avid, Rega p9, Well tempered, Townshend Rock 7, Clearaudio Classic Wood, Transrotor Fat Bob, Oracle Delphi V. Used examples of any of these are well worth their price. What you should get from these is better bearings and platters, better motors and better plinths.

For tonearms, once you get past the basic and very good Jelco and Rega arms, your next level is SME 309, Audiomods IV, Graham, Helius Omega, Clearaudio and Roksan, mostly in the $2000 range new. Any of those is better than your basic arm. Next step up is triplanar, schroeder, graham phantom, durant etc. Prices get pretty high with those.

For cartridges, I think the Lyra delos, Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, dynavector 17d3 and Benz micro glider II offer the best value and performance. For MM, ortofon 2m black. You dont say what your current cartridge is, so its hard to say what would be the next step up.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Ruben1 » 08 Aug 2012 22:03

Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Still not sure which way to go but I do appreciate it as it gives me more to think about, which is the reason i posted this note.

I should have included the rest of my gear when I posted the original message.
My current system (electronics) which I am very satisfied with and which I don't feel require any upgrades at this point are as follows:
Phone stage: Wright Sounds WPP 100c
Line stage: BAT VK 5i
Amps: VTL Compact 80's (monoblocks with 6l6 tubes)
Speakers: DIY open baffle with horns. Very satisfied with the sound and a keeper for probably many many years to come.
So this is it. Somehow I feel like a better table/arm is what I need to take my rig to the next level. At the very least the arm. For a cart I have several but the one on the arm now is an Ortofon X3 (also looking to upgrade).
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Trackside » 09 Aug 2012 00:41

You can take your present deck up a significant notch with an arm upgrade. What cart is on there also as this may be a limiting factor. The Systemdek is a good unit and it will take a lot to significantly better it unless pitch stability is bothering you.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby duficity » 09 Aug 2012 02:21

I have an x5, which is ok, but nothing like the cartridges I named above
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Ruben1 » 09 Aug 2012 18:01

Thank you everyone for the replies.
I still have some confusion as to which way to go given all the nuances behind turntable performance and selection so I want to simplify the question and greatly appreciate your opinion.
If I did install a Graham 2.0 or 2.2 arm on the Systemdek (the ones I can afford) or a Micro Seiki 505 (which I also think very highly of) how would the Systemdek with either of these 2 arms compare to either the VPI Scoutmaster with 10 inch arm or the older VPI Aries 1 with a 10 inch arm? I am very fond of VPI for several reasons (built quality, service, performance, etc.) so I am simplifying my question by asking for a comparison against 2 specific tables I like.
Against these 2 VPI tables how favorably, or not so favorably would the Systemdek with either a Graham or Micro Seiki arm compare? Please be as specific as you can with the reply.
Thank you very much.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby AudioSoul » 10 Aug 2012 00:01

I would recomend a VPI Traveler.($1,300.00) It is a modern design that should give you a couple of steps up.....
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby zharca » 12 Aug 2012 22:36

I'd urge a bit of caution about the Graham arm unless you can get it at a very reasonable price. If you ever have an issue with the arm wand or connector there are no new spares available to fix it. This might, of course never happen for you but, if you really aspire to a Graham arm, maybe think about getting something else now and save for a Phantom, which can be serviced, though I think you'll need a different turntable as well because it's really rather heavy for a Systemdeck.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby cafe latte » 12 Aug 2012 23:22

Trackside wrote:You can take your present deck up a significant notch with an arm upgrade. What cart is on there also as this may be a limiting factor. The Systemdek is a good unit and it will take a lot to significantly better it unless pitch stability is bothering you.

I agree here the Systemdek is really a very good deck make sure you dont do a downgrade in getting rid of it. You wont go far wrong upgrading the arm and fitting a really nice cart.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby duficity » 13 Aug 2012 17:20

If you keep your systemdek, I would recommend an SME 309 or higher or a Helius Omega. Either arm is a set and forget proposition, will handle just about any cartridge you would likely try and are serviceable. The 309 offers the luxury of interchangeable head shells for easy cartridge swapping. I am using a 309, 345, IV and Omega on my suspended tables with excellent results
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Eoin » 13 Aug 2012 21:51

Nice looking record deck that. Good luck!
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Ruben1 » 30 Oct 2012 22:06

I want to share with everyone here my first major upgrade to my table.
Since the weak links were the arm and cart this is where I started.

As you can see from the pics I installed an Eminent Technology ET2 arm. Previously I was leaning towards a unipivot arm for an upgrade but I got very interested in linear tracking tonearms so this is the route I went.

The set up was a bit more involved than a pivoted arm but the results are nothing short of astonishing. Anyone whom believes these arms can't work well with a suspended table such as the Systemdek IVe is simply mistaken. The arm maintains horizontal balance perfectly on this table and is no fuss at all to use it once the set up is completed.

Next I will be upgrading the cart as it is a significant mismatch with this arm-table combination.
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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby ksoholm » 31 Oct 2012 17:00

Amazing. I was just thinking of getting another Trans-Fi Audio Terminator for my IVE, but, the shibboleth is that linear trackers on suspended tables are dodgy due to weight transfer. Your arm doesn't indicate any such issues? I owned one before: http://www.trans-fi.com/terminatortonearm.htm

Also, have you ever lived with an ET before? Is it as fussy a poodle as lore has it?

One more question--did your IVE have an owner's manual, or was it yours that came with a IIX manual?

Thanks!

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Re: Systemdek IVe Upgrade

Postby Ruben1 » 31 Oct 2012 22:49

Ksoholm, to answer your questions:
1. I have never lived with the ET before purchasing this one, nor any other linear tracking tonearm for that matter. I only recently purchased and installed the ET2.
2. My TT did not come with an owner's manual.

Whatever weight transfer there may be it does not seem to effect the suspension, at least nothing that I can hear as distortion, etc.

One other note; Bruce Thigpen, the creator/genius behind this arm is still in business and works on these arms even though some of them are 20 + years old. I sent my to him for a rewire and for a very reasonable price he did a heck of a job rewiring it with silver wire. I am incredibly please with the service he provides his customers so this is yet another reason for anyone interested in a linear tracking tonearm to give this particular one a look.
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