Wow and Flutter

[Playercoach]

so I have a sansui ssr4050c turntable in which I had the motor rebuilt. I picked the turntable up from a friend. at the time I got the turntable it was working. then the motor seized up as there is no oil in it. I had the motor rebuilt and now I play records and put the needle down I get some feedback I believe this is what you call wow and flutter. the thing is I don't recall the turntabledoing this before the motor went out on me. I'm looking for some feedback a how to a minimizer get rid of that feedback because I really sounded great before the motor went.

Any input would be great

Mike

[kelvinMunson]

From your description it's not clear exactly what the problem is.

Wow and flutter are 2 types of speed variations usually, grouped together. Flutter is fast variations, wow is slower variations.

Is speed variation the problem, or do you mean something else ?

[duficity]

wow is due to a slow speed change a short time. flutter is a quick speed change over a short time. Neither is feedback related, which is vibration induced amplification of sound due to external forces, such as speakers. Which do you have?

[Playercoach]

I'm new here so I'm just starting to understand the lingo...I should stop assuming I know what the lingo stands for but it sounds more like vibration induced amplification is the issue. When I engage the tone arm to play I get a humming. Anyway to remedy this?

Mike

[Playercoach]

I am having Vibration induced Amplification on a Sansui SR-4050C turntable. There is no feedback when i turn the table on, it starts when the i switch to play and the need moves to the record.

Anybody have an idea opn how to get rid of this annoying anomaly?

Thanks

[kelvinMunson]

If it is vibration induced, ie due to feedback, then it will only happen when you are actually playing music through your loudspeakers. If you reduce the volume it should cease. How close is the TT to the speakers and what are the TT and speakers mounted on ?

Is this the case, or do you mean that there is humming there all the time, even when there is no music ?

If this is the situation then you probably have a bad connection either at the headshell/cartridge or with your RCA leads to the amp. Have you checked that all the connectors areclean and tight and do you have a seperate earth lead connecting your TT chassis to the amplifier earth ?

[Playercoach]

Hey Kelvin;

When I get home from work today I will have a look and maybe take some snaps so you can see the set up. The humming is only there when I engage the tone arm moving the switch from "on" to "play". Having said that, the speakers are about 2 feet and 6 feet from the TT and the lead is not separate and there is not a separate conection to the amp lead.

I will check the connectors, i thought it was maybe my amp, but i recently picked up a SX-636 and I still get the humm through that amp as well.

[josephazannieri]

Yo Playercoach:

Try this diagnostic trick. Put a record on the turntable and unplug the turntable from the power, so it will not spin. Then take the arm and lay it on the record and turn up the volume to where the control is positioned when you play a record. Then just listen for a while. You should hear nothing, even when you walk near the turntable. If there is acoustic feedback, you will see the arm and cartridge begin to vibrate while standing still, and you will hear the hum and the ringing, and at some point you will have to put arm back in rest. Once you lift stylus off record, feedback will stop immediately. If you are getting this sort of feedback, then you need to isolate the turntable from the speakers. If in a good situation, you should be able to turn the volume up all the way without any feedback. I was finally able to make that happen with my Thorens by pinning the turntable to a couple of paving blocks that served as a mass filter.

Acoustic feedback will give a "shaky" sound that is similar to turntable flutter, but flutter won't be as severe as feedback, flutter won't have the low frequency component that feedback usually has, and flutter stays the same and doesn't get louder and louder like feedback does. Wow is simply a slow drift in pitch that goes up and down, usually as the turntable rotates. You can use slow acoustic piano music with long notes in it to spot both wow and flutter.

And good luck from that shaky old guy,

Joe Z.

[Playercoach]

Cool feedback guys, I will try these solutions tonight after work. I will let you know what i come up with. Fingers crossed thats all it is.

Mike

[Playercoach]

I tried the "unplug the power turn the volume up trick" and there was no shaky tone arm, although the feed back was large. I tried to isolate the turn table from a distance of the speakers and still that stupid buzz.

What should i clean my RCA connections with? any other ideas?

I opened up the turntable and wanted to check the soulder on the ground as i had a previous problem with a ground connection on a previous TT. After opening the TT and inspecting the solder on the connections (those little red, blue, green etc pesky wires), it appears that maybe they aren't the original and it looks like some run over so i will try to clean those up. The ground is good so if this doesnt work, i am officially stumped.

[josephazannieri]

Yo Playercoach:

Did the sound stop when you lifted the arm off the turntable? If it did, or it reduced severely, then your problem is feedback. If it stayed the same volume, then your problem is hum. The arm won't shake visibly unless you have a relatively high compliance stylus or a relatively massive arm, but my experience with my various carts is that the arm shakes visibly. But then, I have relatiovely high compliance carts.

You can clean your RCA connectors with a spray on or brush on commercial cleanerlike Deoxit, or that spray
on contract cleaner that they sell at Radio Shack for 5 or 6 bucks a can, or you can get some 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper and just use that, or a Brillo or SOS pad to clean the RCA plugs and jacks. Just roll sandpaper into a fine tube, and put the tube into the center of the RCA Jacks, (KINKY!) and work it in and out. You must be careful in this operation, for your confessor will probably tell you that this sort of activity is a near occasion of sin. You can use the 400 grit on the pin and inside the ring on male plug, and on the outside sleeve of RCA jack. Just sand enough to take the crud off. Don't go crazy, a little is a lot.

And good luck from the old sinner, living among the near occasions, and fighting them off,

Joe Z.

[Playercoach]

Yo Joe!

I think the problem may be hum then. When the tone arm is in the "on" position there is no hum or noise but when I move the lever to play the hum starts. The needle doesnt even need to be on the record and the hum is there. As long as the lever is engaged on "play" the hum is...well...humming.

I am on a mission, my wife thinks Im crazy..I say just addicted to this vinyl stuff thats all, but if I can get rid of the hum this table will sound so sweet. I will try the "in and out" tonight, (on the rca's you sick buggers)

signed

"My wife is getting ready to kick me out of the house"

[goatbreath]

So are you saying the hum starts when the motor starts to turn the platter around,,if so it could be the cartridge picking up noise from the motor..Try this with the tonearm lifted so the stylus tip doesn't get dragged off,,,, moving the arm nearer the spindle with the turntable platter spinning..If the hum gets louder it is probably the cartridge picking up noise from the motor..


I'm looking at a picture of your turntable,,you don't have a Grado cartridge fitted do you..???

If not the headshell is a standard headshell by the look of things..It could be the wiring on there..If you can't do the fix yourself you can buy a headshell already fitted with a cartridge..

AH!! reading the full thing,,it could be that your motor id not shielded properly..I say could be,,I have never experienced that one before...Just a suggestion...

[josephazannieri]

Yo playercoach:

If it's a problem of the cartridge picking up hum off the motor, you can try this diagnostic trick: Get hold of a big 10" saw blade and lay it under a record like a 7" 45 RPM disc and see if the hum goes away in the area where the additional metal lies between the cartridge and the motor. I had this problem on my Thorens turntable, after going through hell to track the problem down, and hassling wth it for almost 30 years. The cure was to take a sheet of galvanized furnace duct tin and punch a quarter inch hole in the center, and cut a 12 inch sheet metal disc to put under the turntable mat. Got rid of hum on Thorens that I struggled with for many years.

And good luck from the cured-up old hummer,

Joe Z.