WHY my YAMAHA PF800 sounds so dull? Please help me.

[huchiz]

Hi, just bought a 2nd hand PF800 from a YAMAHA distributer. NZD 430 for the TT with high output MC705 attached and another new MC705 in box. Someone on the forum told me the MC705 high output is actually a Audio Technica AT3200 OEM.

The TT is generally in very good condition. All the function works including auto arm lift, the arm doesn't come back which is simple and good. The 3 point suspension is so cool, the platter is perfectly flat, speed is accurate and stable to my eyes, arm seems to be ok as well, the adjustments works, moves smooth. The belt seems a bit loose by my guess, but it does the job. I'm ordering a replacement anyway. But I'm new to vinyl anyway, could be something I don't know.

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Well, I replaced the fitted stylus with the new one. Yes you are right I didn't uninstalled the already fitted cart, just put the new stylus from the new cart to the fitted cart. Because I don't have right tool to alignment a new installed cart yet.

Then set weight, down force, bias, all smooth. Connect to amp, no obvious hum which is good.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS IT SOUNDS SO DULL! It's not what I've hoped at all. Any of my CDP or apple airplay can easy over perform the TT by HUGE amount. I suppose there is no obvious distortion, but it just doesn't sound right. By the way, I have to turn the volume control way up to get a proper volume, and there is so little dynamic.

My setup is Naim Nait5i+Wharfedale Opus1, they normally sound very vividly and lively. Since Nait 5i doesn't have a phono stage, I'm using a TEAC A-H500 as MM phono stage and feed Naim through the tape out. The TEAC is a Reference 500 series which is superb when listening to CD, not far behind NAIM at all!! But is it could be the built in phono stage is that crap?!

Please I need help.

[huchiz]

Currently the down force is set up to 1.7g mark.
And using TEAC's own speak output result the same: very dull and flat music.

By the way, here is some photos of the stylus I just shot.

This is the so called the new one. I just used it for maybe 1 hour. Is it good?

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[huchiz]

This is the old fitted one. Looks really horrible. Is it died totally?

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[fscl]

Nothing like "every picture tells a story"...

First, check out this topic:

viewtopic.php?t=27370

I've used IPA on a short chisel bristle artist paint brush to clean cantilevers and styli that look like pictures of your old stylus and come out like your new one. Then try using your old stylus to play your vinyl, hopefully it will sound correct.

Looks bad but plays well after cleaning:


Why does your new replacement stylus sound dull and low in volume....

Take a look at the 5th picture of your 1st post....it looks like there is glue where the cantilever enters the plastic holder, I'm betting that this is preventing the cantilever from vibrating properly and conveying signal to the magnets onward into the amplification chain....

Compare the new against the old at the junction. I've experienced the exact same thing with a "new" replacement stylus , took pictures and emailed the supplier immediately after receipt. They agreed it was incorrect and replaced with another.

Good luck and good choice with the Yami, lots better than the Project / Rega you were considering..

Fred

[markcass]

Hi

The old stylus looks very dirty, whereas the new one just has a few hairs attached. It's actually impossible to detect serious wear to the tip at that magnification, though gross damage might well be visible. In the case of the old stylus, it's so covered in muck that it's hard to tell anything about its condition.

I'm not familiar with either the deck or cartridge, so I can't say why you're finding the sound disappointing. One possibility is that the old belt is so loose that the deck can't keep up to speed, especially during louder and more rhythmic passages.

I suspect that the TEAC's phono input isn't up to the standard of the turntable. The fact that you have to turn the volume up a great deal is not unprecedented, but might suggest the stage has insufficient sensitivity for the output of the cartridge.

In many cases, built-in phono stages on modern complete systems are just there to add a feature to the package. This wasn't so when vinyl was the principal source, though there were, of course, plenty of bad phono stages around.

HTH

Mark

[cafe latte]

Possibly your phono preamp, but something is wrong as I prefere to listen to my duplicate stuff on vinyl rather than CD (my cd player is a Cyrus cd8se) as the vinyl is soo much better.
Is the stylus clean? (wet clean with alcohol and distilled) use a brush with solution in the direction of play.
Are the records clean? Again wet cleaned, more info if needed.
Have you set up the cart correctly?
Any info you can give will help.
Regards
CL

[markcass]

Hi

I certainly think the Nait 5i could do with being fed from a better phono stage. The TEAC's stage is doubtless competently engineered, as their equipment always is. However, when I helped a friend add a turntable to his Nait-based system, it was a success even though the deck was only a modest Goldring GR2, but we were using a Project Phono Box SE I was selling him, and a phono stage of that standard or better would be ideal.

Mark

[thespirit3]

My amp doesn't have a phono stage. In desperation I visited the local Maplin (like a UK Radio Shack) and bought a £20 pre-amp. It sounds fantastic. I'm 100% sure your TEAC has a far better phono stage than this so I really don't think the TEAC pre-amp is the issue.

Is the phono stage on the TEAC set for MM or MC? Is it switchable?

Failing that, I'd listen to fscl above, this sounds like a very possible reason for the dullness and lack of output.

Again, I bought a cheap Dual 505-3 (I paid £60, about £20 over what it's actually worth), bought a £20 temporary pre-amp and the sound is far preferable to that of my Marantz CD63 CDP. The difference is immediately obvious. Something is definitely wrong with your setup!

I hope you resolve this soon. Please keep us updated!

[fscl]

Too late to edit, however, found the pic I sent with the glob of glue:


The original broken stylus:


My glob seems to be bigger than what's on your pic, however, if something like superglue, it can easily surround the entire rubber junction and make very stiff causing the music to sound dull and low volume

Good luck.

Fred and nice pics btw, how are you shooting them......

[pfcs49]

I would clean off the old stylus with an artist paintbrush and 1/4 alcohol/water mix, reinstall it and see how it sounds with the old stylus. If that fixes it then you definitely have a defective stylus

[fscl]

I would clean off the old stylus with an artist paintbrush and 1/4 alcohol/water mix, reinstall it and see how it sounds with the old stylus. If that fixes it then you definitely have a defective stylus

pfcs, good to see you back......

Do you still have a collection of PX-2s and 3s? Along with the B & Os?.....

I think I can stop now as I'm really pleased with the JVC (pivot) and Sony (linear) active arm DD turntables.......

Fred and just put the Sony in Sys 1 for auditioning purposes......

[danfan]

According to the Cartridge Database on this site, the Yamaha MC705 has an output of 0.3mV. That sounds a little low to put through a Moving Magnet phono stage which is probably more comfortable with a 3.5mV cartridge output.

[Balifly]

Hi, just bought a 2nd hand PF800 from a YAMAHA distributer. NZD 430 for the TT with high output MC705 attached and another new MC705 in box. Someone on the forum told me the MC705 high output is actually a Audio Technica AT3200 OEM.

Check your source of information concerning the Yamaha MC 705 cartridge.

Are you sure that it is a "high output moving coil" cartridge?
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/yamaha/mc-705.shtml

[cactuscowboy]

According to the Cartridge Database on this site, the Yamaha MC705 has an output of 0.3mV. That sounds a little low to put through a Moving Magnet phono stage which is probably more comfortable with a 3.5mV cartridge output.

I was thinking along the same lines. Poor match between cartridge & phono preamp. That would explain the poor sound and low volume.