Inner Groove distortion - Can it ever be TOTALLY eliminated?

[mikewilliamson]

I do clean my records with the Nitty Gritty wet vacuum system. Almost everything that touches the stylus is quite clean.

Oh well...We'll see what the result is when the replacement stylus shows up.

[Doug G.]

never had a problem with IGD in all my tears of using the turntable

I know you mean "years" since it can't be that sad operating a turntable.

Anyway, same here. The only times there was/is ever IGD is if the record was/is worn.

And I bristle a bit if somebody says it's inevitable because that's just not true. There are either a lot of inferior cartridges being sold these days or inferior stylus replacements.

Doug

[mikewilliamson]

I noticed today that my white "zero" reference line is not centered with the pivot. Have a look at the pic and you will see it hangs to the left of the pivot (and where the fishing line is attached), which I assumed was the dead center of the tonearm.

Is it normal to have a "zero" mark that is not centered like this?

[Hanuman]

And I bristle a bit if somebody says it's inevitable because that's just not true. There are either a lot of inferior cartridges being sold these days or inferior stylus replacements.

If you are suggesting that a rise in distortion is not inevitable between the inner null point and the inner-most grooves then I respectfully beg to differ. The null points represent the only points in the arc of a pivoted arm where the tracking distortion is theoretically zero. In the case of the inner point, the distortion rises relatively dramatically after that point towards the inner-most grooves. I think it's the case that, due to the steep-sloped distortion curve in that area combined with the fact of "squeezed" space due to the shorter relative groove-length, the interaction between alignment, compliance, VTF and bias force becomes very critical and difficult in some instances to optimise. That's not to say that the audible effects of the rising distortion cannot be kept under control and, ultimately, reduced to virtually nothing to speak of. Obviously, correctly matched components, well aligned, can and do achieve this.

[alternativeroute]

I noticed today that my white "zero" reference line is not centered with the pivot. Have a look at the pic and you will see it hangs to the left of the pivot (and where the fishing line is attached), which I assumed was the dead center of the tonearm.

Is it normal to have a "zero" mark that is not centered like this?

Get yourself a stylus gauge. It's a worthy investment that is (in some cases) a lot more accurate than the tonearms gauge...

http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuresfg2_e.html

[vexorgtr]

I would tend to agree that IGD can't be 100% eliminated on all records. It's just harder to track the inner grooves, so it's quite likely to occour. Depending on what recording you have, and what gear you have, you can reduce it to a great extent, and keep the music enjoyable from start to finish.

I experienced this issue a great deal when I started on LP's... and I've got it reduced to the point where it isn't easy to detect. Cart selection, alignment, and the like have been the best factors.

[kelvinMunson]

I noticed today that my white "zero" reference line is not centered with the pivot. Have a look at the pic and you will see it hangs to the left of the pivot (and where the fishing line is attached), which I assumed was the dead center of the tonearm.

Is it normal to have a "zero" mark that is not centered like this?

Makes no differenceat all; it is simply a reference against which you can set the zero of the counter balance when you balance the arm at zero tracking force.

[mikewilliamson]

Ok...So I got a new 1042 Goldring and it has helped the problem, though not eliminated it.

Though clarity overall has been improved, there is STILL noticeable distortion on basically the last song on each side of a record.

I've set this turntable up using 3 or 4 different methods and am at my wits end.

Anybody live in the Burbank, CA area that wants to check this out for me and help me set this up properly or at least identify the problem? This inner groove distortion is haunting my dreams now.

You will be paid in beer and great tunes!

Mike

[cafe latte]

Try the maximum downforce that the manufacture recommends. Dial in zero antiskate, then set the downdorce so the stylus just hovers over the vinyl, mow zero the slip ring and dial in equal antiskate. Also worth checking is that your arm wires are not pulling. This time with stylus guard on again hover the arm with zero antiskate and try to get the arm to hover in different parts of the record, now try to get it to hover at last track area and see if it hovers or swings strongly back towards the rest. It should hover in any position on the record, but some turntables do gently swing towards the rest which is fine, but if there is any force to the swing this may be your problem causing distortion in the last track area, worth a check..
Regards
CL

[Bob in STL]

Just tried Stevenson. No luck. Actually, it sounds worse to me.

I wish I had another 1042 stylus lying around to test with. Maybe it's a bad stylus and I'm agonizing over the VTA for nothing.

What exactly is the sound you hear that is characterized as inner groove distortion?

Is it a crackling on the right channel?

Is it there all the time?

[ipapb]

I would tend to agree that IGD can't be 100% eliminated on all records. It's just harder to track the inner grooves, so it's quite likely to occour. Depending on what recording you have, and what gear you have, you can reduce it to a great extent, and keep the music enjoyable from start to finish.

+ 1.
Reduce but not totally eliminated, imho...

[flavio81]

Inner Groove distortion - Can it ever be TOTALLY eliminated?

_Yes_ for practical purposes, if the record isn't damaged.

You need a good tracking cartridge, alignment optimized for the inner grooves of your record, a good arm, and enough VTF. And clean surfaces.

Most complaints of IGD around forums are down to either (1) damaged records, (2) improper alignment, (3) mediocre stylus assemblies, (4) insufficient VTF, and (5) damaged/loose arm bearings.

[mjwraw]

I understand the frustration though - it's like trying to chase a rainbow, you understand clearly what you're trying to achieve but no matter what you do you don't get any closer...... I've wrestled with this on a recent TT acquisition, and what I find most frustrating is that there are no audible clues you're on the right track i.e. IGD is clearly there, so you slightly change things, (different VTF, different anti-skate, realign cart etc), and the sound DOES NOT CHANGE AT ALL !!! You'd think that if one set up produced a result, then changing it would either make it better or worse, giving you a clue as to which path to follow. But oh no, nothing that simple, either you get it dead right, (like hitting a bulls eye on a dartboard from 5 miles away), or it's just wrong -no varying degrees of wrong to give a clue, just wrong............ And after about three weeks I tired of throwing darts from 5 miles away and just accepted that vinyl is 'quirky' (BTW, it was an AT440mla on an AR "The Turntable" with the Jelco arm, and I'm pretty sure I understand the process as I managed to 'hit the bullseye from 5 miles' on my previous deck, a Pioneer PL112D)

[mjwraw]

You know, after all this time you'd have thought there would be some 'standard answers' e.g. increased sibilance in right channel - lower VTF, IGD more noticeable in left channel - move cart back in headshell, IGD in left channel - dial back anti-skate, and so on and so forth, but oh no, it needs to be opaque and impenetrable (a bit like quantum physics) and therefore beyond your average joe. It's no surprise CDs caught on so quick............