Bearing Oil Questions

[SoundHarmonyMKII]

Don't know how to start this one, so I'll just make a list of the questions I have...

1. Do I need to purchase an oil made specifically for tt's, or is there an alternative?

2. Either way, what suggestions might you guys have as to what is the best to use?

3. Where all do I need to keep oiled?

4. How cautious do I need to be about over doing it?

[analogaudio]

It is OK to add oil to the center bearing, Technics provides oil for the purpose which is very lightweight and recommend a few drops every few thousand hours. You can buy the Technics oil for about $5 from www.kabusa.com

Don't add oil to the arm bearings.

Some automatic and semiautomatic TTs have mechanical gears levers and bearings which are usually lubricated with grease.

[Tedrick]

The simple answer is "it depends." Some 'tables use light machine oil, some use medium weight oil (such as synthetic motor oil), while others use grease for the bearing. What 'table are you lubing?

[audioorigami]

Don't know how to start this one, so I'll just make a list of the questions I have...

1. Do I need to purchase an oil made specifically for tt's, or is there an alternative?

2. Either way, what suggestions might you guys have as to what is the best to use?

3. Where all do I need to keep oiled?

4. How cautious do I need to be about over doing it?

what turntable is it?

[SoundHarmonyMKII]

Rotel RP-850, belt drive, full manual

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[cogsinister]

I love the way people ask "What turntable is it ? ) then when the OP posts a pic no b u g g e r replies !!!!

[Dimal]

According to the user manual for this TT, the motor bearings don't require servicing and if the Platter Spindle is the usual highly polished s/s, then I'd go with a light duty (SAE 20/30) synthetic oil for that. Probably only need a couple of drops, after you've cleaned out the original....

Will rarely need redoing, unless you subject your TT to extraordinary levels of service. A clean-up and relube every 2-3 years would be plenty...

Mal.

[Hugues TR4]

The service manual for your TT is in the library section of this site to download. (click on Library on top of this page).
You probably will find a lot of answers to your questions in there.
Personnally, I re-oiled the platter bearing on my Thorens and Dual TT's with full synthetic SAE 5W30 motor oil to my entire satisfaction.
At any rate, never overdue it: not necessary and sometimes harmful.
Hope to have contributed to at least one solution to your problem...

Good luck,

Cheers,

Hugh.

[Josey Wales]

I think that is totally unnecessary to spend a lot of money on specific tuntable oil.
I use a light weight oil made for fishing reels which is quite cheap and as medium wieght I use a regular motor oil. When you oil the center bearing you should look at how much play it is in the bearing assy. If it is a tight fit use a light weight oil if there is some play use a thicker oil.

[PeterW.]

Please note the interpolations:

Don't know how to start this one, so I'll just make a list of the questions I have...

1. Do I need to purchase an oil made specifically for tt's, or is there an alternative?

No. But! Purchase a *synthetic* lightweight machine-oil enhanced with PTFE (Teflon). You will find this at good hobby shops, sites that serve the clockwork hobby and other locations. It will have a high film strength (won't run), does not varnish and resists oxidation well.

2. Either way, what suggestions might you guys have as to what is the best to use?

3. Where all do I need to keep oiled?

The center bearing of the platter. The motor bearing _IF_ it is exposed and/or has an oil port. DO NOT run oil down the shaft unless you can see the bearing and/or know its nature. If there is a back bearing on the motor, it is also useful to lubricate that if it is accessible. DO NOT lubricate arm bearings, gimble bearings or similar unless specifically noted to do so in the manual (service or owner's). Any stray lubrication at those areas may attract dust which could be fatal to their proper operation.

4. How cautious do I need to be about over doing it?

Try not to. Too much oil attracts dust. The wrong kind of oil will harden, go to varnish, oxidize or otherwise degrade over time. If you use a good-quality synthetic PTFE-type oil, you may need to do it only once every several years or less.

http://www.vendmarktech.com/page20.html About midway down the page - Micro-oiler pen.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[cafe latte]

Do not use motor oil!!! Some spindle bearings have sintered bronze in them and any motor oil will distroy the bronze!! Also in a bearing there is no filter like there is on a car so the detergents in the motor oil will keep the dirt suspended so it will keep wearing the bearing and also with time the aditives in motor oil willform a gunky coating. For spindle bearings when in any doubt to what oil you need use a spindle oil or compressor oil which you buy from any good motor shop. Compressor oil is spindle oil, it has no detergents and is safe for sintered bronze too, also it wont gunk up the bearing. I use iso 46 for my Technics which is the correct weight and the same for my Commonwealth idler which specifies a light machine oil (iso 46 is considered a light machine oil). Avoid sewing machine oil as it is just too light.
Regards
CL
Jas put quite a comprehensive list of what oil is good in what TT on a thread. I found it a few weeks ago, but cant find it now. Any chance of the list again Jas?
Regards
CL

[Trackside]

Have to disagree with nearly everything you said there CL......Engine oil definatley does not attack bronze as valve guides are often made of bronze as are some turbocharger bearings. Some gear oil EP additives though will attack it which is why some gearboxes with syncromeshes made of bronze run on engine oil and not gear oil.
Keeping dirt suspended in the oil rather than letting it settle out in the bottom of the spindle is actualy a very good thing and will minimise wear.
Adatives to engine oil will not form a 'gunky coating' as engine oils are designed to prevent breakdown and seperation even at high temperatures so this will certainly not happen at the low temps found in a TT.
Motor oils are however mostly too thick for many TT applications. The viscosity to be concerned about is the W number which is the viscosity when cold. Film strength is essential to maintain a seperation in high pressure areas like the thrust point and here fully synthetic oils are far superior to old mineral oils and viscosity is not related to film strength. How slippery an oil is is also important with again synthetic oils bettering old mineral oils in this respect however low friction may not be such a good idea as it also acts to damp out drive train variations and a loss of friction could decrease pitch stability. In the end an engineer will have designed a TT spindle bearing with a particular oil in mind. This will take into account friction, spindle to housing clearance, manufacturing tolerance, thrust point radius and material and required damping of the drive system - i.e use what the manufacturer recommends and deviate from this at your peril
BTW ISO 46 is a very thick oil - any links to info to show this is used in the Technics bearing as the close clearance of this bearing would require something much thinner.....

[cafe latte]

Have to disagree with nearly everything you said there CL......Engine oil definatley does not attack bronze as valve guides are often made of bronze as are some turbocharger bearings. Some gear oil EP additives though will attack it which is why some gearboxes with syncromeshes made of bronze run on engine oil and not gear oil.
Keeping dirt suspended in the oil rather than letting it settle out in the bottom of the spindle is actualy a very good thing and will minimise wear.
Adatives to engine oil will not form a 'gunky coating' as engine oils are designed to prevent breakdown and seperation even at high temperatures so this will certainly not happen at the low temps found in a TT.
Motor oils are however mostly too thick for many TT applications. The viscosity to be concerned about is the W number which is the viscosity when cold. Film strength is essential to maintain a seperation in high pressure areas like the thrust point and here fully synthetic oils are far superior to old mineral oils and viscosity is not related to film strength. How slippery an oil is is also important with again synthetic oils bettering old mineral oils in this respect however low friction may not be such a good idea as it also acts to damp out drive train variations and a loss of friction could decrease pitch stability. In the end an engineer will have designed a TT spindle bearing with a particular oil in mind. This will take into account friction, spindle to housing clearance, manufacturing tolerance, thrust point radius and material and required damping of the drive system - i.e use what the manufacturer recommends and deviate from this at your peril
BTW ISO 46 is a very thick oil - any links to info to show this is used in the Technics bearing as the close clearance of this bearing would require something much thinner.....

You can disagree as much as you like but you are wrong. Regular motor oil contains dispersants which encourages water to emulsify, this is a bad thing for an oil that never gets changed and is constantly open to the air and also never gets warm, ie in a turntable bearing which unlike a car engine is not a close system so very quicky the oil will be like milk. The detergents encurage solids to become suspended which is fine when there is a filter in the system, but not good when there isnt, also these suspended particles clog the sintered bronze eventually ruining the bearing, this does not happen if they are allowed to settle out. iso 46 synthetic detergent free spindle oil IS Technics oil ask Kab for a Technics alternative and will also point you in this direction. How am I so sure I am right though? I sent a vile for analysis to the company I now buy my oil from here in Aus and they confirmed Technics oil is synthetic iso 46. I contacted them re buying small quantities of oil and the owner said he could send me oil in a testing vile, so I posed the question, do you test oil? They did so I sent him a vile of Technics oil. It is cheap to get oil tested send some yourself if you dont believe me there are loading of companies that do it. You can if you want you can do a basic run test yourself which is a rough and ready test although not strictly correct for testing iso viscosity, but it is a very good indicator. There is very good reasons spindle oils, compressor oils, fans oils and machine oils (all basically the same) exist and that is because motor oil is no good for these aplications. Ask anyone who resores vintage fans with sintered bronze bearings why they use compressor oil.
Regards
CL

[Trackside]

I continue to be happily wrong - as do most TT manufacturers and owners out there who spec synthetic motor and gear oils for their TT's. I'll try some ISO 46 in my SL-1200 - thanks for the tip on this.