Thorens TD160: Advice me on further upgrade path

[dirklenart]

Hi all

I'm trying to continue the upgrade path on my Thorens TD160 with TP16 arm.

What's been done:

1. Replaced interconnect with Linn Akito interconnect (done by Linn dealer)
2. Revised suspension (followed diverse suspension overhaul pages until I understood): taken apart, cleaned, talcum powdered, reassembled, centered,leveled platter (done by myself): pretty pleased with this since it was more or less 'frozen' before.
3. Ordered a new cartrdige (Denon DL-110) after reading a lot of favorable reviews in this site and Audiokarma in combination with TP16; calculated resonance looked good
4. Replaced plywood base with 1/2" MDF board (done by myself)
5. Wallmounted the TT with Pro-ject Wallmount it 1 (done by myself: best upgrade I spent money on, so pleased with it!) + rests on spiked, thin mdf board supplied together with steel framework of Wallmount It
6. Removed stock feet and replaced by Vibrapods (model 2)

Things I think need to be done
1. order original Thorens belt to replace (new) generic belt
2. Looking for clamp/weight: any advice on this (useful on suspended TT?)? Read about Michell, could use some advice here
3. Looking to upgrade mat: Funk Archomat (rather expensive), Herbies Way Excellent II (3mm), Ringmat, Pro-Ject mats (leather? felt?); Linn mat (rather cheap)?
4. Dampening inside (Dynamat? Where to get it?): your opinion on necessity please
5. Ordering RCM: Thinking about the Okki Nokki (sold by my Linn man, read a lot of favorable comments, cheap compared to Nitty Gritty, ...)

So, I'm eager to hear your opinions on what's necessary, useful or spend your money better on a nice LP!

Thanks

Dirk Lenart

[kelvinMunson]

Definitely invest in an Okki Nokki, or any other RCM, sooner rather than later, particularly if you are buying and playing used vinyl, It makes an unbelievable difference to the be able to play clean vinyl. Over the years I have purchased thousands of used LPs and many of these suffered clicks and pops, despite my efforts at manual cleaning. Last year I purchased an Oki Nokki and the improvement is way beyond my expectations. It obviously cant fix scratches or worn grooves but the dirtiest/noisiest vinyl comes up like new. It seems a large expense initially but using home-brew cleaning solution it is cheap to run and very quickly pays for itself.

[rkay5]

Hi,
The Herbies Way Excellent II (3mm) is a very good mat I've used one on my TD150 but a good cork mat like the Plattamat sold by http://www.analogueinnovation.com/page8.htm is what I use most or the time on my TD150.The best upgrade to look into is a power supply I use a Mose-Hercules power supply makes for prefect speed and much better SQ!!One more thing a new hard wood plinth.

[Bob in STL]

You are doing great!

For the belt I used Joel. I found him on e-bay but he is a member here under the name Violette. You can PM him.

He can send you the right belt and a kit with motor oil and bearing oil.

Good luck, Bob

[dirklenart]

Contacted Joel and ordered a service kit. Thanks for the link!

Hesitating between a Plattamat and an Archomat to pair it with a Michell clamp. I think I would need a 3 mm mat although a 5 mm Archomat is available too, but the spindle on the Thorens is not very high. Measured the stock mat and I think it is 3 mm too. I need a mat which goes up to the spindle for the washer the Michell comes with.

Next month I'll order the Okki Nokki (paycheck coming in )

[madog99]

You will need to get the "R" version on the Michel clamp , works great on the 160 , plus nice to give it a spin to help start up with . The RCM is one of the best things you can do

[Blue Shadow]

It needs the damping material. That is one of the big differences between the 160 and the 160Super along with the MDF you have already done.





Now start saving your spare change and upgrade that tonearm...it is a whole new world.


I had to put something in there for you to stretch to achieve.

[dirklenart]

@Blue Shadow: Damping material: I could buy this from Ebay: size would be sufficient I guess? http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/260946725683?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
@Blue Shadow: Could you to some suggestions for a tonearm upgrade? My shop does Linn, so maybe a Linn arm would be nice?

@madog99: R version: is it the Rega version you mean?
http://www.analogueseduction.net/product/Michell_Engineering_Record_Clamp_For_Rega_Turntables_ME-REGC

@madog99: And do you suggest the 3mm or 5mm version of the Archomat? I know VTA can be adjusted easily on a Thorens, but I'm concerned with the low spindle height.

Thanks for thinking along with my project and sharing your experience.

Regards

Dirk

[madog99]

@Blue Shadow: Damping material: I could buy this from Ebay: size would be sufficient I guess? http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/260946725683?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
@Blue Shadow: Could you to some suggestions for a tonearm upgrade? My shop does Linn, so maybe a Linn arm would be nice?

@madog99: R version: is it the Rega version you mean?
http://www.analogueseduction.net/product/Michell_Engineering_Record_Clamp_For_Rega_Turntables_ME-REGC

@madog99: And do you suggest the 3mm or 5mm version of the Archomat? I know VTA can be adjusted easily on a Thorens, but I'm concerned with the low spindle height.

Yes the R is for Rega , I read that the Thorens spindle is shorter and the R is able to grab it .Works fine on mine , my mat is 3mm and only 7mm of spindle is left to grasp , and that's with no LP on the deck . I know nothing about the mat you mention , I have one of those Sonic Bliss shelf liner ones and the original of course . But the clamp is not heavy and helps flatten some lp's . I prefer the sound with the clamp , it seems slightly firmer in the bass region ?? Or maybe that's my brain saying "yes you didn't waste your money , it is better" But I use in mainly as part of my hand spin RCM set up so well worth the price for me .
cheers
John

[JerAud]

Hi all,

I have a TD 160 MKII and I am looking into damping material as well.

My major concern, and perhaps people who have done it would be able to answer, is the conductivity properties of the aluminum backing on that type of material like Dynamat -- there are several different alternatives our there as well? Would that not affect the sound? Is cork matting a better alternative for the interior as well?

thanks,
Jer

[dirklenart]

Hi JerAud

I've ordered a sheet of Dynamat today so I'll be installing it next week and I'll keep this thread updated on my findings.

Secondly, I've received Joels service kit today (after 2 days!). I had only time to install the new belt and it was spot on! The previous owner had installed a new belt she told me, but when I spinned 45 rpm records the platter really had to struggle and made noises until it come up to speed.
With the new belt from Joel the first thing I did was ... exactly. Spin a 45 rmp. No noises spinning up to 45 rmp and my Jimmy Reed at Carnegie (Steve Hoffman mastering) sounds as it should, I had some doubts after buying it this week. And I was right it seems.
Tomorrow I'll be doing the lubes from Joel.

Thirdly, I'm having doubts about the mat and clamp thing after reading some more threads. Get the feeling it might be a money sink and a thing just in your head (it sounds better because I've spent 150 dollars). So I'm barring that road at the moment. I might go for a cheaper or DIY cork (or cork/rubber mix) mat though just to see what happens soundwise.

Been finding my way into the vinyl market too and finding my path into that wood better and better. I've discovered it's better to spend more money on great remastered classics and albums from audiophile labels. It's the best sound improvement you can get. I have the Speakers Corner John Lee Hooker 'It serve you right to suffer' and the Audio Fidelity 45 rpm 'Jimmy Reed at Carnegie', mastered by Steve Hoffman & Kevin Gray. The 45 rpm B.B. King 'Folksinger' is on its way and I've been drooling over Steve Hoffmans Ricky Lee Jones s/t remaster.

[JerAud]

Hi dirklenart,

Thank you for the update. I'll be sure to track this thread.

On the cork mat, have you seen the Music Hall (about $50)? I was thinking of getting that one. Of note, Thorens also makes a record weight (Thorens Stabilizer), but it is about 3 times the cost the Michell.

I read Joel's great primer and I likely will order his service kit as well.

I just got my 160 and it is original everything -- although it needs some tuning up, things appear to be in good condition. I suspect it has been parked for about 15 years. Has the original cart (Nagaoka MP-11) the previous owner installed. After taking some time to align it, it still sounds pretty good.

I am looking into a high output MC (Dynavector or Sumiko) for a future purchase, but there are lots of things to work on before that!

Mostly I have been cleaning, re-aligning and buying good old used vinyl.

take care,
Jer

[madog99]

Hi JerAud

I've ordered a sheet of Dynamat today so I'll be installing it next week and I'll keep this thread updated on my findings.

Secondly, I've received Joels service kit today (after 2 days!). I had only time to install the new belt and it was spot on! The previous owner had installed a new belt she told me, but when I spinned 45 rpm records the platter really had to struggle and made noises until it come up to speed.
With the new belt from Joel the first thing I did was ... exactly. Spin a 45 rmp. No noises spinning up to 45 rmp and my Jimmy Reed at Carnegie (Steve Hoffman mastering) sounds as it should, I had some doubts after buying it this week. And I was right it seems.
Tomorrow I'll be doing the lubes from Joel.

Thirdly, I'm having doubts about the mat and clamp thing after reading some more threads. Get the feeling it might be a money sink and a thing just in your head (it sounds better because I've spent 150 dollars). So I'm barring that road at the moment. I might go for a cheaper or DIY cork (or cork/rubber mix) mat though just to see what happens soundwise.

Been finding my way into the vinyl market too and finding my path into that wood better and better. I've discovered it's better to spend more money on great remastered classics and albums from audiophile labels. It's the best sound improvement you can get. I have the Speakers Corner John Lee Hooker 'It serve you right to suffer' and the Audio Fidelity 45 rpm 'Jimmy Reed at Carnegie', mastered by Steve Hoffman & Kevin Gray. The 45 rpm B.B. King 'Folksinger' is on its way and I've been drooling over Steve Hoffmans Ricky Lee Jones s/t remaster.

The Thorens mat is fine , the other one I bought was $20 and I think it sounds slightly better on the 2 tables I tried it on but again very slightly . the Michel clamp is more pronounced and worth the money I would say , makes sense that if your LP is flat and coupled to the platter mat you would get better sound ? Most Thorens guys always give the platter a push to start up with , why stress the belt ? Again the clamp is perfect for that. But I am no expert on tables .
cheers

[dirklenart]

Hi guys

I'm writing an update on my further upgrade efforts!

Today I received the Dynamat sheet (it's enough for 2 turntables, so I'm left with about half of it). I performed the Dynamat mod as in the post.

It's amazing really. You can knock on the plinth or on the upper plate, it sounds dead, no more noise is picked up by the needle. A really worthwhile upgrade. I also did the plinth on the inside btw, since I had so much left of the Dynamat.

Secondly, I think I will pass the mat upgrade but will order the Michell clamp as Madog99 suggests. I've written them today to ask if the R version will work on the 4mm spindle I've left with 180 gr vinyl.

Thirdly: I've bought a 5 cm thick chopping block with 4 Vibrapods beneath it. I noticed the Vibrapod sandwich (pods between 2 pieces of wood)works way better than putting the pods beneath the TT. It really worked best to get rid of noise.

Fourthly: I'm going for the Michell Tenderfeet (3 pc) I think, and swap them against the stock feet of my Thorens. http://www.hifigear.co.uk/michell-tenderfeet-large-pack-of-3.htmlI really like the look of them and I think after reading a lot on the subject that spikes beneath the TT are the way to go.

At the moment, all the background buzz and hum I had (in a rather minor way, but still) has disappeared. So I'm very happy with these mods.