New Turntable Plays Fast No Adjust?

[skyfox12]

Hello, this is skyfox12. I made a couple of posts earlier regarding my Pioneer PL-15D Stereo Turntable. I recently purchased a new turntable off of ebay and received it yesterday. It is a BSR Quanta 400, a turntable, as I found have found reading through various posts on other forums that is not a very high end or a popular tt. Nevertheless, I have it set up, and to me it sounds very nice paired with an Audio Technica AT-71E cartridge. I was first somewhat surprised to find out that it was an auto-return as I was somehow under the impression that it was a fully manual, but no major biggie to me.

Looking under the platter it did not have the conventional set up for an auto-return that I have seen in previous turntables I've owned that were auto-return. What else that was new to me was that the platter stops and lifts up the tonearm like another turntable I have which is a Philips 437 Synchro Belt Turntable. But then somehow the tonearm returns by itself. I'm guessing there is some very tiny servo or something that returns it. My complaint with that is that it gives a rather pronounced "THUNK" sound when the TT stops and the tonearm lifts and returns. However I can live with this. But, records sound at least one note sharp, and there is no evident speed adjust control. I tried a new back up belt, a 15.2 inch flat medium belt, and the result was the same.

I've read about some turntables having a speed adjustment under the plinth. Might this be the case for this one? I really don't feel like taking the bottom off and exploring around for any adjustments unless I know that they are definitely there. It didn't come with a manual and don't want to buy one for $12.95 from Anologue Alley, and can't find any other place on the net where I can find one for free. If push comes to shove I may relent and buy one, but I'm hoping maybe someone on here might have some info or knowledge on BSR TT's. Any advice would be kindly appreciated and I thank you in advance.

[Jim Leach]

An inexpensive speed adjustment for the occasionally too fast Rega tables is to wrap vinyl electrical tape around the DRIVEN pulley (sub platter) to make it a tiny bit bigger, thereby slowing the speed a bit.

I don't see what this 'trick' wouldn't work with any other belt drive running a bit fast...

[Steerpike_jhb]

I doubt very much there is another motor associated with the arm.
Possibly the anti-skating force is enough to return the arm once it is lifted?

Does this have a shaded pole motor in it (like other BSRs I have seen)?
If so, there is no speed adjustment possible, but they might have counted on a tighter new belt slowing it down a bit, so it was designed to run slightly fast if a lose belt is installed.

[skyfox12]

I think you're right about the antiskate bringing back the tonearm. To be honest, I do not know what a shaded pole motor looks like, as this is my first BSR, but the pole motor looks like three tiny disks on top of each other. The belt it came with seemed snug enough on the pulley. Having the same idea as yours, I put a backup belt I had purchased in advance in case I needed it and it was so tight I thought it was going to snap or even break the pulley itself. No difference. Played the same. So I put the old belt back on and will save the other one when it is needed.

However, I did two things that might have helped just a slight bit, and that was to one, put a little oil at the bottom of the motor pulley, thinking that it would at least lubricate the motor a little and encourage it to run more smoothly, ie... as it should. Two, I took the belt and actually gently stretched it with my fingers and reinstalled it on the tt and ran it on 45 for a minute or so. Maybe it will work itself out with further playing and/or I will slowly become more accustomed to the sound to the point that I will just barely notice it or if at all. Thanks everyone for your input.

[Steerpike_jhb]

I do not know what a shaded pole motor looks like, as this is my first BSR, but the pole motor looks like three tiny disks on top of each other..

Exactly like this one:

[skyfox12]

Oh Boy, that looks like some disassembly was done. I don't trust my miniscule know-how on tt's enough to take it apart without damaging some of the tiny delicate wires and connections I see under the platter. I'll just assume that the poles are shaded. Something did come to mind, and that was remembering reading somewhere that on the AR XA TT, which I had at one point, the belt was supposed to be covered in Talcum powder before installing. I have also found, as a side effect, that polishing the drive pulley will reduce friction as well. I may give these a try before gutting it and risk damage. However, I very much appreciate your time in getting this info for me as I at least like to know how things work. Thank you kindly.

[skyfox12]

I finally got my BSR Quanta 400 TT to play slower, to the point that I cannot distinguish the rpm's (from a hearing standpoint) from other tt's that I knew were running at or about the right speed. I just hope that its not adding extra stress to the pulley. I took the belt off. I replaced it with, unbelievably enough, a 3.5 by .25 inch postal rubberband; of which I have a whole bag full. Only problem (so far) is that it doesn't like the bracket changer: it doesn't uniformly flip down to the bottom, bigger part of the pulley that drives at 45 rpm.

I will either have to do that manually, and if that doesn't work, go back to the normal belt. I don't consciously detect any wow as of yet, but I just put it on and given the characteristics of a rubberband, the platter may starting wowing after a short time. If anyone here has tried a rubberband as a drive belt as an experiment or for serious consideration, please let me know. I welcome all input and again, thank you in advance.

[Steerpike_jhb]

If your machine is playing really fast, could it be you have a 50Hz European version? The speed difference would be quite considerable though, not just a slight sharp tuning.

[skyfox12]

I looked at the back of my TT and I believe it said 120 Volts 60 HZ. My improvised rubberband still seems to be working, and if the voltage difference would make it sound as different as you say, then my little rubberband trick would probably reveal it as well. Thank you for your response.

[Steerpike_jhb]

I looked at the back of my TT and I believe it said 120 Volts 60 HZ. My improvised rubberband still seems to be working, and if the voltage difference would make it sound as different as you say, then my little rubberband trick would probably reveal it as well. Thank you for your response.

A frequency rating of 60Hz is right for your country of residence! The voltage isn't going to affect the speed to any significant degree.
You could print out a stroboscope disc from the library here, and use that to verify objectively if it is running fast, and by how much.
Also check to see if it runs fast at both 45 and 33 RPM
And not all records are recorded at exactly the right speed, particularly cheap compilations.

[skyfox12]

Thanks for the info about the printout. I did print one out and tested my tt on both my "proper" drive belt, and the rubberband. The drive belt showed to be noticeably fast. The rubberband was itself just a teeny-tiny fast, but closer to stationery than the drive belt, and sounded more to what the right speed should be.

I have noticed in the past with turntables I have had with the strobe lights that you can have them running just a tiny bit faster than dead-on, and still not be able to not detect any change in sound. However, that may just be me, and for the past year or so, I've been dealing with double inner ear problems that hinder me from hearing the very high end ranges. Again, thank you.

[skyfox12]

Go figure. I finally got my BSR Quanta 400 to play right on. The rubberband worked a little bit but it was still a little too fast after printing out a strobe disc from this forum. Plus, I found out that the pulley was shredding my rubberband because there was rubberband "dust" all around my pulley underneath the platter that I had to brush off.

I tried taking one of my "proper" belts and stretched it, put baby powder on it, and even massaging 3 in 1 oil on it to see if any of that would make a difference. Nothing worked.

Then I realized I had 3 belts for my Philips 437 Synchro Belt TT, which are approximately the same size in circumference but were much smaller in width and thickness as well as being a square belt. I figured what the hell and put one of them on and presto, dead on. Now I haven't correlated the philips belt with the strobe, but to my ears they sound dead on and thats good enough.

I may print out another strobe for giggles to see if it actually is on or not someday, but am completely satisfied with my serendipitous discovery. Has anybody else used another turntable belt with completely different specs to get the right sound for their TT than the one it came with? Just curious.

[Coffee Phil]

Hi Skyfox,

The belt does have an effect on speed. I would not have believed how much effect the thickness of the belt matters untill I got my my Rek-O Kut. The effetive diameter of the pulleys includes part of the belt thickness. The latter posts in this string are about how I "tweeked" in the speed by grinding the belt thickness: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=41194&start=30

Phil

Go figure. I finally got my BSR Quanta 400 to play right on. The rubberband worked a little bit but it was still a little too fast after printing out a strobe disc from this forum. Plus, I found out that the pulley was shredding my rubberband because there was rubberband "dust" all around my pulley underneath the platter that I had to brush off.

I tried taking one of my "proper" belts and stretched it, put baby powder on it, and even massaging 3 in 1 oil on it to see if any of that would make a difference. Nothing worked.

Then I realized I had 3 belts for my Philips 437 Synchro Belt TT, which are approximately the same size in circumference but were much smaller in width and thickness as well as being a square belt. I figured what the hell and put one of them on and presto, dead on. Now I haven't correlated the philips belt with the strobe, but to my ears they sound dead on and thats good enough.

I may print out another strobe for giggles to see if it actually is on or not someday, but am completely satisfied with my serendipitous discovery. Has anybody else used another turntable belt with completely different specs to get the right sound for their TT than the one it came with? Just curious.