Grace tonearm cables-Buy or DIY?

[josephazannieri]

Yo those with knowledge:

The old know it all is in trouble again, and prostrates himself humbly before those with greater knowledge than he in the hope that those truly knowledgable people will deign to save his a*s and the rest of his body, too.

The Grace G707 Mark II tonearm on my Garrard 301 has developed low signal level in the right channel. Careful signal tracing has traced the problem to the right channel signal wire (red). This wire measures about .5 ohm between the cartridge and the female plug in base of arm, but measures between 60 and 100 ohms between the male plug on the cable and the center pin of the right channel RCA connector. I replaced the right RCA connector, and that changed nothing, so the problem is either at the male plug where it plugs into the arm base, or somewhere in the middle of the cable run. I have wiggled the wire along its length while measuring, and I cannot find the bad spot, and even if I could, I need about a meter (39 inches) of cable to get from the turntable to the preamp.

So here is my question. Is it possible to make one of these cables? If so, where do I find that male DIN plug? What sort of shielded cable do I use so that it will be small enough to plug into base of arm? Where do I go to get this stuff? Has anybody built one of these things successfully? I am not afraid to cut and solder wires, including shielded cable, and have wired a lot of connectors in over 40 years in the hobby, so I am not afraid, but I don't want to go on a suicide mission and wind up having to buy a cable anyway. I also don't want to have to spend as much for the materials as I would for an already assembled cable. I am looking for the least expensive practical solution.

I have seen some cables for this arm on Ebay, but I don't want to spend $150.00 for a cable. Don't have that kind of dough, and I don't want to give up the Grace arm. I have heard of a Canadian company called Ultimate Cable that makes a cable for the Grace arm with that wierd male DIN plug for about $80.00. I might be able to swing that, but are the Ultimate Cable cables any good? Don't want to load down my Shure V-15-IV cartridge with a lot of capacitance, or high end will be affected. Has anybody had experience with the Ultimate Cable cables? Is there some other source that makes decent cables for a reasonable price?

I would be profoundly and abjectly grateful for any assistance from those with greater knowledge than I.

And good luck from the humble old groveler,

Joe Z.

[loonieboo]

Hi Joe , the ultimate cables grace cable is a cracker and really good value compared to others , it's beautifully made with quality components and a real step up from the grace cable my 940 loves it .I. Looked into making one but decided it would save me little or no money and once the ultimate arrived I was glad I didn't bother.
Go on get one I know you wont be disappointed . I have no connection blah,blah, just a very satisfied customer.
Best regards loo

[Blue Angel]

Hi Joe

I have a Grace G-727 Gyro Master which has a 5-pin female arm cable mating with 5 slim, goldplated pins inside the arm socket. Going on the premise that dry joints or a complete break is more unlikely to occur than plain corrosion or perhaps a slight accidental bending of the right + channel pin - have you tried a bit of careful cleaning with contact cleaner or fine 800 or 1000grit emery paper?

I know this is difficult and awkward to get inside that arm socket but the cable itself unplugs. As you know, there are 5 'tulip-type' goldplated connectors on the armcable side. With a careful bit of work with a small jewellers' screwdriver inserted between the nylon and tulip connector, one can also ease the two halves closer together to make better contact with the pins inside the arm socket.

If the finest needle file is used together with some contact cleaner or emery paper to clean the errant pin and its corresponding connector, perhaps it may be worth a try?

Cold weather and atmospheric pollution often plays havoc with connectors. They often appear to be clean but are not.

Btw, I have actually made some of these armcable connectors in my workshop by turning and milling the parts on my lathe and mill. A truly fiddly and difficult job.

ba

[josephazannieri]

Yo gracious contributors of their superior knowledge:

I thank you for your contributions, and I think I have decided what to do.

@ba:

I understand your point about the connection at the bottom of arm where cable plugs in. I cleaned the pins and the socket off with Deoxit and it did not change anything. Mine is somewhat different from what you describe, since the female plug is in arm and male plug is on cable. Arm cable is male DIN to male RCA I made a measurement by clipping a gator clip test lead directly to the #2 pin in the 5-pin plug on the cable and clipping the other test lead to the center pin in right RCA connector. This eliminated the plug-socket interface, and I still got the variation from 60 ohms to (now)open circuit, depending on whether I squeeze or wiggle the DIN plug. Maybe the answer is a replacement DIN plug and rehooking up the wire that is already there, provided I can get the wires to hook up and solder properly. Thank you for bringing up the plug interface, though. Connectors like that are well known failure points. I believe that I have eliminated it as the cause of my failure, unless you can see somewhere I have gone wrong. Oh, and by the way, (off topic)have those CD's arrived? I wondered how long it would take to South Africa. Takes 2 or 3 weeks for CD's to get to my cousin in Canada, but she is in BC, about 1500 miles away. You are farther away, so it will probably take longer.

So I guess I will have to see if I can get a 5-pin DIN male plug without breaking the bank. Anybody know any sources for these things? If I can't, or if I decide not to hassle it, then the Ultimate Cable looks like the one. Certainly more reasonable than anything else. And thanks to loonieboo for confirming that it is a well- made piece. When I buy it, and don't make it myself, I am always scared that it might stink. You say "a great step up from Grace cable." Could you elaborate a little bit? The Grace RCA ends were not prime, in my view, though not awful. Are the Ultimate RCA plugs metal or some other material? If metal, are they insulated or bare? I have a requirement to isolate left channel ground from right channel ground due to switched 2-arm installation on this turntable.

And thanks and good luck from that grateful old guy,

Joe Z.

[loonieboo]

Hi Joe , if your grace cable is the same as mine , White plastic male din with grey insulated cable and metal bodied RCA plugs, then the ultimate cable has similar size RCA plugs to the grace they are metal but anodised black I think ,the neg sleves are tapered so slightly thicker than the grace ones and a better grip but not so tight that you can't get them off also the din plug does not have the plastic body like the grace it's just a plug then neatly shrouded by some rugged heat shrink type material it's a snugger fit than my grace plug was possibly down to wear on the pins? And less prone to the effects of gravity,also it's diameter is the same as the grace inner pillar so I can pull my arm up and off the deck and the lead can come through the mounting shaft with it if that makes sense .the lengths of cable themselves are sleeved inside a single loose fitting although not too loose braided sleeve along with the separate earth which is terminated with a tightly crimped U. It's not flash but it's neatly put together , it's quiet , if I get a battery for my mm in the next day or so I will measure it's capacitance but I have used it with multiple carts and seems fine with all so I would gamble that it's nice and low and designed for it's use .I have only ever read good things about it and like I said I have been happy with mine .
Regards loo

[Blue Angel]

Hi JoeZ

A new armcable as mentioned by loonieboo then seems to be the solution. I suppose cables can drop channels after 30 or 40 years usage.

OT: CD-R's arrived incredibly fast - collected with much thanks and appreciation yesterday (Friday) morning. I haven't had a chance to listen to all but sought out one track from Don Carlo (O Don Fatale) - Shirley Verrett having been my 'benchmark' up till now.

Thank you too for the copious notes which must have taken you a long time to type - taking those to bed for bedtime reading tonight.

I will return your kind favour but you set a very high standard of exquisite music and songs.

Regards

ba/andre

[josephazannieri]

Yo ba and loo:

Well, the Cosmic Weenie swooped low and said, "Take a bite out of me!" so I bit. I ordered the 4 foot Ultimate Cable, rigged for Grace G707 with that 5-pin DIN male DIN plug. I will let you know how it turns out, and thanks for help and encouragement.

And good luck from that grateful and now expectant old guy,

Joe Z.

[josephazannieri]

Yo cable cognoscenti:

Ultimate shipped the cable 10/27. It evidently got held up at border, because it did not arrive until Monday 11/7. That's ten days in shipment in mail. But, that said, it was a nice looking piece, just exactly as Loo described it. So, I removed the old cable and went to install it, and had to turn the turntable upside down. This is a 2-arm rig. I took off the turntable, making it easier to handle the deck. This allowed me to stand the deck on its side and work beneath it. When I tried to push the new cable into the socket in arm, I discovered that the plug was REALLY tight, and I wound up pushing the arm up and destroying my VTA. Ultimately, I made the connection, but I had to remount the arm. This involved reinstalling the arm and adjusting the VTA again. Of course, it involved rerouting the new cable.

I also decided to revise the grounding system for the rig. I had previously had ground of Thorens arm, (5th wire) connected to chassis of Garrard turntable, and a ground wire from turntable chassis that ran alongside my Grace arm cable (attached to it with cable ties) that connected turntable chassis to amp. I changed that. I ran a 5th wire from Thorens arm ground along arm cable to chassis of amp. I disconnected Thorens arm ground from turntable, grounding Thorens arm directly to amp chassis. I ran a separate ground wire from turntable chassis to amp chassis, and the 5th wire of Ultimate cable on Grace arm to chassis. This means that I now have 3 ground wires coming off this turnmtable rig, attached in a star fashion to amp chassis. Seems a little quieter than it was before. I also have a Thorens TD 150 with a Linn arm connected to second phono input on Hafler preamp. That also has a ground wire, making 4 ground wires attached to amp from 2 turntables.

After all this revision, I set the turntable up, and plugged it in, and guess what? It didn't go around. That was about midnight Monday night, so I quit in disgust. This evening, I traced the problem to the power cord on the Garrard, which was the original 54 year old power cable. I replaced that with a new 18 gauge power cable with a molded plug, and rewired the motor, hooking to the power block, using the old lug connectors and resoldering them.

I just hooked the newly plugged and adjusted rig and listened to the new arm cable. The first thing I noticed was the increased presence of the right channel. Evidently this right side cable has been biting the weenie for some time, and I just hadn't noticed that the right channel had gradually gone away. Now a nice even sound side to side and a better center fill. The Neutrik clone RCA connectors on the arm cable are quite close but do not interfere with each other, which I am always scared of with these "premium" RCA connectors, which are often to big for "standard" dimension RCA plug strips like I have on my turntable arm switch. The outside ot the RCA connectors is noncondutcive, so I don't have to insulate the connectors from each other, like I have to do on the metal RCA plugs I have on the Thorens arm. RCA connectors go into jacks all the way, and make nice tight connections. Looks good and sounds good, so I am satisfied. I will have to listen for a while to analyze sound. I notice what seems to be greater bass fullness than previously, but I think this is because I am now getting full output from right channel.

An old friend used to tell me that you should make any job you do look "like a mechanic done it." He was using the term "mechanic" in the old-fashioned sense of "craftsman." This job meets that criterion, and the Ultimate cable looks good, sounds good, and is emninently satisfactory. It is a little short, but I had sufficient cable to make the hookup I needed. All told, about a 4 hour job.

So good luck from that pleased and satisfied rewired old guy, with a new power plug,

Joe Z.

[Blue Angel]

Hello Joe

That sounds like you did a nice job there. And the bonus was the improved right channel sound which I guess will improve further once all those copper molecules get their ducks in a row...

ba