Pioneer Pl12d Upgrades

[grendel]

Hi everyone,

I just received a mint Pioneer pl12d turntable. Although not "high-end" to many, it matches my setup consisting of the Quad 44/405-2 combo with IMF Super Compact 2 speakers very well.
Mounted is the Shure M75 cartridge in the original headshell. What might be a good option for upgrading the cartridge and headshell? Judging from stories on the net, there are a lot of options for better headshell and/or cartridges.
I hope there are some PL12D users over here who will help me to make this baby sing .

[nat]

I suspect most people would suggest that the table is quite a bit below the quality possible with the rest of your equipment. But you say it's well matched, so I guess you like how it sounds.
In which case, why fix what ain't broken? Make sure the stylus is good and that its aligned properly and tracking at the upper end of the recommended force and that the antiskate is correct, and then enjoy it.
Later on, you may want to upgrade, but if you do, its easy enough, and meanwhile you are enjoying listening.

[grendel]

Thanx Nat,

You are probablyright. I mean buy "match", the way how it looks,. A great vintage setup. I was just wondering if there were some guys out here who could give me some tips to enjoy this turntable to the max. For example, best cartridge to use, or something like that.......

[vincitsemper]

Hello,

The PL12d is a nice deck but as Nat mentioned earlier probably not in the same league as the rest of your set.

I collect PL12Ds and love the way they look,classic 70s for sure so most of mine are all original,however a couple have been modded.

You can add some bracing in the plinth to make it more rigid and add something to increase the mass,I have lumps of lead in mine.

Check the foam inserts in the suspension springs,they are sometimes perished but either way you could replace the foam so to reduce wobble. Check also the rubber grommets in the motor suspension as if they are perished you will have unwanted vibration.

The later headshells,on the PL112D,are more rigid so see if you can get one. Many people replaced the original PL12D headshell as it was deemed to be a bit flimsy.

Of course first thing to do is clean and lubricate the splindle bearing and also oil the motor's top bearing,f you are confident enough also do the bottom bearing,you will have to take a couple of screws out.

Clean the motor pulley and the part on the platter the belt will run on with some alcohol.

You may aswell make the best of what you have but it's not a bad deck at all.

Good luck,

Victor.

[grendel]

Thanx a lot for your help, vincitsemper. I didn't mention I also have been using my Thorens TD 160 MKII for playing records, but I love the looks of my Pioneer. I'll go to work with your tips and hope I will enjoy my Pioneer even more. The headshell you mention, what is it called?

[vincitsemper]

Hi,

Not sure about the headshell,it's the one fitted to the PL112D turntable,the PL12D's newer model.

You can fit any decent headshell with SME fitting or even an SME headshell itself.

I have an SME from the series II tonearm on my moddded PL12D ,they used to go for around £35 but I saw one 2 weeks ago go for £80.

Anything SME gets a lot of interest on auction sites lately.

In all honesty I do think that your Thorens TD160 is a better deck but if you like the PL12D just go for it.

Regards,

Victor.

[nopiano]

I had a PL12D as my first hi-fi TT and it was great. I had the classic Shure M75ED with it, which was about the best it would take. Today, a M97xe might be worth a try.

I think your Quad deserves much better, at least a decent Rega or Thorens. The Pioneer has its limits. The top upgrade in the 70s was a SME headshell if you wanted lower mass, or an ADC one for more rigidity. The original Pioneer was neither stiff nor light. I have kept my ADC headshell, which came with an XLMII cartridge and storage case for three more headshells - those were the days!

Removing the subsidiary counterweight (I think it was meant to even up the bearing load created by the S-shaped arm-tube) was a favourite mod, as it added mass and unwanted resonance. Remember to reset the tracking weight if you try it.

[kumpa56]

Hello, Ladies and Gentlemen.
I'm new of the forum.
And I just draw a PL12 from my mother's house.
It still works, but not properly, since long sounds are not ... "stable", like they were modulated by a slow frequency.
I doubt the motor is not working properly.
Do You please have any suggestion?
I thought at dismounting the TT but I do not know where to start from.
I mean, which screw shall I move first?
And then?
I trust Your suggestions, if any ...
Thanks a lot in advance.
Alberto

[vincitsemper]

Ciao Alberto,

Have you cleaned and lubricated to platter's spindle and motor bearing?

If the speed is unstable this is probably due to either belt, you may need a new one, dried up grease in the platter spindle or motor needing some oil.

You will need some thin service oil, like the type used in sewing machines.

I would not start taking the deck apart, initially just get a new belt and only remove the platter spindle in order to clean it and the well it sits in.

The PL12Ds motors are fairly good, just add oil and make it run for a few hours without the belt fitted.

Buona fortuna e mandami un messaggio privato se ti serve piu informazione.

Regards,

Victor.

[kumpa56]

Hallo, Victor.
Thanks for the quick answer.
I already cleaned and lubricated with Singer sewing machine oil where Pioneer suggested (there's a sticker pointing at a hole. Is this the motor bearing?) and the platter spindle from above.
I turned the TT on for a couple of hours, belt-less.
The motor bearing turns silently.
Once platter is assembled back, there's instead a light scratching noise like something is rubbing/interfering at each turn.

I haven't disassembled anything yet.

Since the belt was missing, I just used a (thin) rubber belt (elastico, in Italian) long enough to fit the platter.
Of course it's an emergency solution, just to see it turning.
And I'm waiting for the original rubber belt I meantime bought in ebay.

Seemingly platter spindle and motor bearing rotate correctly (RPM), but I've no way to measure its right turning.

Comments are welcome.
Thanks.
ciao.
Alberto

Ciao Alberto,

Have you cleaned and lubricated to platter's spindle and motor bearing?

If the speed is unstable this is probably due to either belt, you may need a new one, dried up grease in the platter spindle or motor needing some oil.

You will need some thin service oil, like the type used in sewing machines.

I would not start taking the deck apart, initially just get a new belt and only remove the platter spindle in order to clean it and the well it sits in.

The PL12Ds motors are fairly good, just add oil and make it run for a few hours without the belt fitted.

Buona fortuna e mandami un messaggio privato se ti serve piu informazione.

Regards,

Victor.

[vincitsemper]

Hello,

Can you see if there is enough clearance between the platter and the deck's top plate? Spin the platter by hand, elastico removed, and see if you still get the scraping noise.

If there is enough clearance between platter and top plate and the belt is disconnected it must be the spindle bearing producing the "scraping" noise.

Sometimes Pioneer's grease dries up and either seizes or stops the spindle from moving as it should.

Oiling the platter's spindle from above is not good enough.You will have to slip the spindle out clean it and re-lubricate.

Also,with an elastic band you will never achieve correct rotational speed so it's imperative you get the correct belt when testing for correct speed using a stroboscope.

At least you know its motor is working ok, now you will have to work out whether the platter is rubbing or whether the spindle is too tight.

The spindle can be easily removed by undoing a retaining screw on the bearing's housing. This is accessed by taking the deck's bottom cover off. You will see it.

Seems your English is better than my Italian.

Buona fortuna Paisa'

Regards,

Victor.

[kumpa56]

Thank You, Victor.
These clues of yours will be very helpful.
Your Italian is OK.
I'm writing in English because in my mind most of the technical word are in English as well (language pollution, isn't it?).
I'll let You know.
Best regards.
Alberto

[vincitsemper]

Hello,

Yes Alberto, I totally agree with you about the "pollution".

Most Italian manuals are peppered with English words, especially in anything to do with computers.

When I lived in Italy the letter K was not in use, now it seems the norm.

I suppose these are the effects of Globalization.

Anyway good luck with the PL12D, I am sure you will sort it out.

Regards,

Victor.

[kumpa56]

Hello, Victor.
since you were sure, I couldn't disappoint you .
Yesterday morning I tested TT turning with and without elastico.
TT w/o elastico makes no turning noise - as far as my 60 years old ears can detect.
In the afternoon the belt hit my post box and, after belt positioning, to my great surprise, anything worked fine.
After so many years of inactivity - about 40 - my Shure 95ED tracked Mr. Stevie Ray Vaughan mainstream bluesing without missing a whammy bar wobbling nor King Crimson were anymore talking to a howling wind.
Many thanks to your kind advice, Victor.
Keep on groovin' !
Best regards.
Alberto