Auto return feature in turntables?

by **Foxhound** » 05 Feb 2009 16:09

The auto return feature has disappeared from almost all high-end turntables. Evidently the reasoning is that the target market for high end turntables, i.e. audiophiles, all think that the existence of this feature must inevitably compromise the performance characteristics of a turntable somehow. Not that anyone is brandishing any blind listening tests supporting this hypothesis of course. Comments?

Is there a better turntable with an auto return feature produced these days than the Thorens TD 240?

:?:

by **Damien Taylor** » 05 Feb 2009 16:39

I think the problem people have, or at least that I have always had is the knowledge that for auto return to function, the tonearm must be physically linked to something, causing uncontrollable forces being exerted on the tonearm and therefore to the cart/stylus and ultimately the record itself.

by **07bloomfieldb** » 05 Feb 2009 17:26

Some cheaper decks (denon dual e.t.c.) have it.

by **killnoizer** » 05 Feb 2009 21:31

Is DENON producing some players with that Feature ?

i've seen some DD Turntables in higher Quality in the Web last year , but they did'nt sell them in Germany .

After years with that "highend " turntables without any comfort . . .

I'm now only in turntables with automatic return , high class from the late 70's , builded with all the know how of 100s of technicians , by producers named SONY and Technics .

great machines , and the Sound did'nt care about the return function .

found the denon , but it's a manual type ...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00022669U/ref ... nkCode=asn

i don't understand why Technics did'nt do THAT job , 30 years ago there where a lot of 1210 clones with all comfort on the market !

by **Foxhound** » 05 Feb 2009 22:27

Damien Taylor wrote:I think the problem people have, or at least that I have always had is the knowledge that for auto return to function, the tonearm must be physically linked to something, causing uncontrollable forces being exerted on the tonearm and therefore to the cart/stylus and ultimately the record itself.

It doesn't have to be that way though. For example, I'm not physically connected to the tonearm at all times yet I can still be made to lift the tonearm from the end of the record when there's nobody else around to do it for me. Similarly, it wouldn't take too clever of an engineer to introduce a system where a device latches on to the end of the tonearm only after the record reaches its end.

:!:

by **Damien Taylor** » 06 Feb 2009 01:16

I'm not physically connected to the tonearm

I've heard of magnetic systems and such, but I'm sure it's recommended that the cueing lever be used at all times (where applicable) to avoid undue stress to the cantilever.

by **07bloomfieldb** » 06 Feb 2009 08:47

killnoizer wrote:Is DENON producing some players with that Feature ?

found the denon , but it's a manual type ...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00022669U/ref ... nkCode=asn

!

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=2&action=detail&Pid=406

by **YNWAN** » 06 Feb 2009 14:02

Integrated auto return mechanisms inevitably mean that one is tied to using the arm fitted (rather than having a choice). In addition, everything on a turntable impacts upon the sound and adding additional unnecessary complication is bound to impact (negatively) upon the quality of reproduction.

I would not be prepared to risk an expensive MC by using a magnetic auto lift (or the mechanical balance types). Both of these require careful adjustment and can be a bit erratic and violent in their action.

As far as I am aware - auto start, stop, lift and/or return have been absent from all turntables aspiring to SOTA for many years. I am in the process of doing some further turntable design now but none of these features are on my ‘desirable qualities’ list.

by **07bloomfieldb** » 06 Feb 2009 14:39

I think Thorens and Dual get it right when it lifts the arm up at the end of an lp and stops the motor, but doesn't return it to base. This is safe, and doesn't require too much equipment on the arm.

by **Foxhound** » 06 Feb 2009 16:05

YNWAN wrote:As far as I am aware - auto start, stop, lift and/or return have been absent from all turntables aspiring to S**A for many years. I am in the process of doing some further turntable design now but none of these features are on my ‘desirable qualities’ list.

Hopefully a 33/45 speed selector dial is on your desireable qualities list. I was aghast when I learned that so many high end turntables require manual repositioning of the belt! Come on fellows, the technology has been around since the early part of the twentieth century. I would think that you would have mastered it by now.

:!:

by **Beltway** » 06 Feb 2009 16:23

That would be the last thing I want to see on a turntable.

by **YNWAN** » 06 Feb 2009 19:37

Foxhound wrote:Hopefully a 33/45 speed selector dial is on your desireable qualities list.

No it is not - at least not with regard to the turntable itself - as far as I am concerned this is a power supply issue. The deck itself is unlikely to have any controls at all.]

by **despotic931** » 06 Feb 2009 20:34

07bloomfieldb wrote:I think Thorens and Dual get it right when it lifts the arm up at the end of an lp and stops the motor, but doesn't return it to base. This is safe, and doesn't require too much equipment on the arm.

I agree, especially when you consider that on the Thorens TD-295MkIV nothing comes in contact with the tonearm at all. An optical sensor is triggered which then stops the motor and automatically lifts up the cueing lever. Well done IMO.

-Justin

by **07bloomfieldb** » 06 Feb 2009 22:10

Hopefully a 33/45 speed selector dial is on your desireable qualities list.

Older mechanical speed selectors tend to break. On my dual you now have to toake the platter off and move the belt, then gingerly put it back, without knocking the belt.

I prefer taking the pplatter off, provided you can out it back on without worrying about the belt falling back to 33/3.