Orpheus Silex turntable Pic's added!

[johnnno97]

I am another Australian with an Orpheus Silex turntable.
My immediate concern is to find a belt for the Silex.

The old belt is 1002 mm long, 3mm in diameter, and as a 'ring' it has an inside diameter of 315mm. (In inches, 39.5 in long, 0.109 in diameter, 12.56in inside diameter as a ring)

I have looked at numerous suppliers of belts, and O-rings, but seem to be having the Goldilocks problem. (no 'just right'). The closest is a 12.4 in ID, but I am concerned that it has stretched more than 0.16in (4mm).

On a related topic, I would like to see our knowledge about the Silex consolidated into an Orpheus Silex resource on VE. Is anyone else interested?

- John.

[13D3Valve]

It is interesting, The motor drives the big idler wheel which in turn drives the belt! The platter is also huge at about 1 inch thick!

Its very quiet!

Rusty

You are very lucky, I just bought one off ebay from Hifi Exchange in Melbourne, and it is far from quiet (much more noisy than my 301 or my TD124); furthermore, the platter is not exactly circular, which makes me fear that it will be prone to wobble.

Furthermore, it is missing the tonearm bracket that yours has. This is particularly annoying, as it was shown on the ebay advert, as shown here:



I believe this is an essential element in the design, as the tonearm should also be isolated from the motor noise.

This is the machine I was actually sent:

From below

From above


I did know that the TT did not have the special tonearm platform, and John did say he would send me one, when it became available, but he did not mention that the bracket was missing.

It is true that, had I been in Australia, I might have been able to see the machine, as invited by Johns HiFi Exchange:

"Nice vintage Australian Made Orpheus Silex transcription turntable. Has 33, 45 & 79 speeds. Nice vintage hammertone enamel finish. Working order, no play in bearing. We would suggest replacing the mount rubbers sometime soon though. Shipping would cost A$30 within Australia and $90 to $130 for international.
Theseis available in our store for display so please come in and have a look....or just drop by for a chat and a coffee...no excuse is really needed! "
It does sound cosy, but for the moment I am not too happy.

It looks as though the part which the tonearm bracket screws onto, which seems to be an extension of the actual subplatter, is actually missing from this Orpheus.

Here are some close photos of the bracket:

Tonearm bracket




I would be happy to hear that I am mistaken on this issue. If I hadn't read such good comments about the Hif Exchange of Melbourne, I would be seriously worried. I am hoping that John of Hifi Exchange will come up with something, but I have been a week without news.

One solution to the motor noise could be a change to a DC motor, which is perhaps what this is :



But I would lose the quality that comes from a good idler device.
I will try stripping and cleaning the motor, but what can I do about the missing bracket.
Do you have any suggestions?
Regards
Anthony

[lowpoke]

Hi Anthony,

I would definitely say your turntable never had a tonearm bracket fitted looking at those photographs. As you say the extended section of arm the bracket attaches to is not present. To be honest if it were me, I'd prefer to not actually have the tonearm attached to the rest of the mechanics anyway. Less likelihood of any noise being transferred to the tonearm!

As for the platter which you say is out of round: if it's bad, maybe you could look at having it balanced. My Lenco platter has a series of small machined holes (actually they don't go right through the platter, so not really holes) around the edge for this reason.

If you decide the table is not for you, I'll be happy to take it off your hands for you!!!

[rusty66]

Sorry i have been away o'seas for quite a while & only saw your posts today!

I would get in touch with John & try to work something out. He is not far from where I am & I would be happy to help you out with any parts or postage etc.

His shop has a really good name, and I am very surprised he would sell anything less than excelent.

Drop me a line if you need some help.

Rusty

[13D3Valve]

I am another Australian with an Orpheus Silex turntable.
My immediate concern is to find a belt for the Silex.

The old belt is 1002 mm long, 3mm in diameter, and as a 'ring' it has an inside diameter of 315mm. (In inches, 39.5 in long, 0.109 in diameter, 12.56in inside diameter as a ring)

I have looked at numerous suppliers of belts, and O-rings, but seem to be having the Goldilocks problem. (no 'just right'). The closest is a 12.4 in ID, but I am concerned that it has stretched more than 0.16in (4mm).

I am looking for one also, so did you find one?

On a related topic, I would like to see our knowledge about the Silex consolidated into an Orpheus Silex resource on VE. Is anyone else interested?
- John.

I have been putting up my project on Australia stereo-net, a thread began by Dustin,
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/18487-Orpheus-Silex-worthwhile-project
as there was already much information there, but when my project is over, I would be interested in summing things up, if that might be of use.
Anthony

[13D3Valve]

Sorry i have been away o'seas for quite a while & only saw your posts today!

I would get in touch with John & try to work something out. He is not far from where I am & I would be happy to help you out with any parts or postage etc.

His shop has a really good name, and I am very surprised he would sell anything less than excelent.

Drop me a line if you need some help.

Rusty

Yes, it appears this model was the pre-Orpheus Silex model. Although the one adevrtized on ebay wasn't.
John did not reply to my direct messages, but has replied to my messages on Stereo Net, and says he will try to help.
Anthony

[13D3Valve]

Hi Anthony,

I would definitely say your turntable never had a tonearm bracket fitted looking at those photographs. As you say the extended section of arm the bracket attaches to is not present. To be honest if it were me, I'd prefer to not actually have the tonearm attached to the rest of the mechanics anyway. Less likelihood of any noise being transferred to the tonearm!

I understand that the owners of Orpheus introduced the complete suspension for platter and arm, calling it Orpheus Silex, because just suspending the platter resulted in movement of the platter that was not replicated by the tonearm, thius introducing some form of distortion.
I suppose you either suspend the complete unit, or you adopt a non suspended platter.

Nevertheless, as I am making a two tier plinth, I have thought of a way of decoupling the arm from the upper plinth that will hold the turntable.
I can attachan Orpheus bracket and mushroom to a two kilo weight that sits in a trough on the lower plinth, and the mushroom can poke up through the upper plinth to take the arm.

I have shown this at
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/18487-Orpheus-Silex-worthwhile-project/page3

It is possible that this could be better than the Orpheus Silex solution, but I would like to be able to test both.

As for the platter which you say is out of round: if it's bad, maybe you could look at having it balanced. My Lenco platter has a series of small machined holes (actually they don't go right through the platter, so not really holes) around the edge for this reason.

It seems this is the visual effect of the fact that the spindle is not exactly at 90° to the platter, or that there is bearing wobble (giving the same result); if so, making holes in the platter won't solve it.
I have not tried it with oil, but just spun the platter round with the power of my arm. It is just possible that when filled with oil, and turned by the belt, that this problem might disappear, but I rather doubt it.

Meanwhile, my two tiered plinth is progressing well, and should look good, so it would be a great pity if the sound is not up at the same level.

AIf you decide the table is not for you, I'll be happy to take it off your hands for you!!!

If Hifi Supply finally send me an Orpheus Silex, I will bear that in mind.
Regards
13D3

[TRaction]

Hello Guys,

I have grown up (literally) with this Orpheus Silex turntable at the heart of Dad's dedicated listening room.

The rubbers on the suspension fail due to the pure latex breaking down.

You can bring the silex straight up to performance very quickly with two things: Lift the spindle and clean gently with metal polish, and wash the single ball bearing at the base of the spindle...that's it...that's your service. Next, ensure your motor suspension is perfect. You go to the chemist and buy some Baby teets for feeding bottles, get sharp scissors and trim them in to replace the motor suspensions. The secret of the OS is the dual isolation. Contrary to popular belief of the old "Heavy BASE plinth" theory for the isolation, the Silex runs best on a really light plinth provided your room is not subject to standing waves and the cabinet cannot resonate with your ULF speaker.

My silex is in dreadful disrepair and has had decades of neglect from my father being unwilling to part with it, but keeping it boxed in a shed (*sigh*)... *lol*.

Any steel/aluminium fabricator could weld a piece of aluminium tube to a couple of pieces of flat bar or a single piece with a slot to get your tonearm mounted as per the original suspension bracket for your Silex.

Any AC motor from a fan of the vintage style 50 or 60 Hz will suit the turntable. I seem to recall seeing motors all over the net that would run the OS... (will give that some checking and get back to you).

We ran ours for 18 years with no mounting isolation and the tests were always harsh with a bunch of critical audio nuts always checking tween this and that.... It wasn't till I turned 17 and ratted through the Hi-Fi boxes that I found the bracket and set up the Grace that we ever really engaged the full performance of this wonderful old turn table. It is no Swede... but very serious Hi-Fi no question.

My ears are probably not up to the job these days, so I my be willing to part with it in the near future...

Hope this (my first) post is of some value and help....

Adam

[Blue Angel]

Welcome to Vinyl Engine.

Thanks for the tips which I'm sure will be useful to Orpheus Silex owners.

Would you have any idea of how many were made?

Cheers

ba

[LJC]

I have just stumbled upon this forum re Orpheus Silex turntables. I purchased my TT when the World Record Club was in Melb. I have the original documentation supplied when purchased incl. the full size mounting template. I noticed some bother was experienced with drive belts. Solution: Contact Ludowici Seals, 5 Gateway Blv. Dandenong Vic. Phone:9767-6888. They made drive belts for me by super gluing the ends of 3mm dia. x 1000 long "O" ring section, I think I paid $5.00 each (I purchased 3). I can assure you this worked a treat; no rumble or flutter. My tone arm is an Ortophon RS 212 fitted with an Ortophon VMS 20E cartridge. I will be happy to share any info. with interested folks. I have two units, lucky hay!

[rusty66]

well its been a long time coming but I pulled the old girl out of the cupboard, and went to work on it today, pulled it appart cleaned, oiled, polished and she has come up a treat!

The belt on mine was streached & weak, so after a lot of searching, I found an "O" ring the right size from a bearing store, its a wisker shorter, but works a treat and doesnt put too much tention on the motor mounts, I re-wired the tone arm and this table works a treat. pick up is fast for a belt drive (78rpm in less than half a turn), no audible noise. she's a beaut..

Ive got it set up for 78's mono with a Ortofon G headshel with a pfanstiehl P 52-2 cartridge straight into an old Rowe AMi jukebox valve amp powering 2 x 12" 1957 Rola's.. sounds fantastic! Im a happy man! Ill try & post some pic's soon!

[rusty66]

here's the pics as promised!













The last pic is the mono headshel & cart thats used for the 78's, but even with the stereo headshell with the S 15-M/T cartridge, its sounds great with the 45's and 33 1/3 as well. Im pretty happy..

[awty]

Buggar! missed your post.
Looks very neat. I still play mine everyday.

Whats size was the belt?

[serena]

I've been directed to this thread hoping that someone can tell me about the caging rods. These are two rods (wires) that are driven by the rotary on/off switch. One lifts the intermediate pulley from the drive (when "off") but the function of the 2nd rod is a puzzle. On my turntable it is just touching the motor chassis, which performs no useful function. It doesn't seem possible that it can engage the intermediate pulley (ie. the pulley that drives the turntable belt), so what does it do?