New Thorens TD124DD

music box
raphaelmabo
long player
long player
Sweden
Posts: 2097
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 21:01
Location: Askersund, Sweden
Contact:

New Thorens TD124DD

Post by raphaelmabo » 11 May 2019 08:46

Thorens has showned at Munich High End Show an updated version of the classic TD124, now called TD124 DD. This comes with a TP124 tonearm with SME connection and ”weight on a string”-antiskate. No technical details, price or availability has been released yet.

Here is an image, from Thorens FB-page. It looks very much like a, well, TD124.
https://m.facebook.com/THORENSOfficial/ ... rdc=1&_rdr

zwarte-romantiek
senior member
senior member
Posts: 286
Joined: 24 Jun 2009 06:31
Location: Utrecht

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by zwarte-romantiek » 11 May 2019 17:13

Just like the Garrard 301. There should also be an updated version in Munich.

Interesting, but it is probably a lot chaeper to buy one "original" versions.

And there should be a new version of the GARRARD 301 as well.Thanks

Niels

raphaelmabo
long player
long player
Sweden
Posts: 2097
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 21:01
Location: Askersund, Sweden
Contact:

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by raphaelmabo » 13 May 2019 11:12

Yes, SME bought the rights to the Garrad name last year and they have showned a 301 at the Munich show.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gar ... -turntable

I believe the TD124 DD would cost at least 100 000 euro too. Personally, if I had the money I would go for a TD550 instead. :)

jbp
junior member
junior member
Switzerland
Posts: 16
Joined: 30 Oct 2018 18:51

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by jbp » 16 Jun 2019 07:13

Seems that a new TD124 becomes reality :D - see newspaper (NZZ); 16.06.2019:

https://nzzas.nzz.ch/wissen/thorens-td- ... ld.1489187

zwarte-romantiek
senior member
senior member
Posts: 286
Joined: 24 Jun 2009 06:31
Location: Utrecht

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by zwarte-romantiek » 11 Jul 2019 17:11

It is an amazing price tag. Wonder what they changed from the original concept? Or what 'beter' materials they used.

Regards,

Niels

montesquieu
junior member
junior member
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 21:11
Location: UK

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by montesquieu » 21 Aug 2019 11:14

I saw this turntable at the Munich show and took some pics.

I didn't hear it play but the close up look and feel was very disappointing.

First of all it's direct drive rather than an idler - which I guess is ok but it means that the original isn't being recreated, it's merely the style / look of the original. Disappointment no 1.

Disappointment no 2 was the plastic body which is also the wrong colour.

Disappointment no 3 was the relatively flimsy platter though depending on the motor something I guess can be done aftermarket with that.

Disappointment no 4 - only two speeds (no 78) while the lever was just an electrical switch - no nice 'clunk' as you move between stepper settings.

Finally - the arm. I hope it's not compulsory to have that tonearm - not sure about the new version but the original is certainly capable of taking a lot better.

The price - the equivalent of £10,000 GBP - is probably unsurprising in this world of rip-off 'brand positioning' exercises but the least said the better. Its a bit dishonest recycling the visual design - which was always a bit pedestrian - rather than all the internal engineering stuff that made it a high performer and still desirable over 50 years on.

All in all a complete and utter missed opportunity.

https://i.imgur.com/kljcseP.jpg

zwarte-romantiek
senior member
senior member
Posts: 286
Joined: 24 Jun 2009 06:31
Location: Utrecht

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by zwarte-romantiek » 22 Aug 2019 17:50

Thanks for the photo. Too bad they did not try better.

I guess I stick to my 1957 TD-124 :D

Niels

montesquieu
junior member
junior member
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 21:11
Location: UK

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by montesquieu » 07 Sep 2019 16:59

And I stick to my 1964 TD124 MkII

https://i.imgur.com/K2ya356.jpg

62vauxhall
senior member
senior member
Posts: 718
Joined: 22 May 2008 19:57
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by 62vauxhall » 18 Sep 2019 00:00

montesquieu wrote:
07 Sep 2019 16:59
And I stick to my 1964 TD124 MkII

https://i.imgur.com/K2ya356.jpg
Apologies for deviating off course.

I very recently became a TD124 owner, purchasing a Mark II. Some time passed between my agreeing to purchase and taking possession of it. During which, I went online to read about them. One item I came across said Mark II’s were produced in 1967 & 1968.

You say that yours was made in ‘64?

A. post I saw elsewhere was from a Mark II owner saying he believed his Mark II, SN 8****, was made in ‘68.

That made me think that mine, SN 66225, was from 1967. But if they were made prior to that year, maybe what I have is older?

montesquieu
junior member
junior member
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Jul 2008 21:11
Location: UK

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by montesquieu » 01 Nov 2019 22:57

Hmm .. chap I bought it from said 64. But it's a 70xxx serial number so I guess may be later than that - possibly 1968.

Anyway I recently got a new plinth for it, permali core wrapped in solid sapele wood. Sounding rather nice. 50kg+ all up.

https://i.imgur.com/ssRoMx1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RWbl6Fr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bseQEdh.jpg

62vauxhall
senior member
senior member
Posts: 718
Joined: 22 May 2008 19:57
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by 62vauxhall » 04 Nov 2019 05:18

montesquieu wrote:
01 Nov 2019 22:57
Hmm .. chap I bought it from said 64. But it's a 70xxx serial number so I guess may be later than that - possibly 1968.

Anyway I recently got a new plinth for it, permali core wrapped in solid sapele wood. Sounding rather nice. 50kg+ all up.

https://i.imgur.com/ssRoMx1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RWbl6Fr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bseQEdh.jpg
Your system looks wonderful. Is the power amplifier glow produced by a single tube?

There was an opportunity during last winter where I could help myself to a quantity of hardwood pieces that was about 50/50 oak and sapele wood with a smattering of walnut. All I could think to make out of it was record bins and turntable bases.

It was my first encounter with sapele and during the process, learned it is in the mahogany family. Both species definitely resembles each other.

Sapele wood was much, much easier to work with than oak and walnut too plus it looks very nice when finished. Maybe it's a material that "flies under the radar" because I don't think it's very expensive compared to mahogany.

raphaelmabo
long player
long player
Sweden
Posts: 2097
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 21:01
Location: Askersund, Sweden
Contact:

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by raphaelmabo » 28 Nov 2019 19:02

montesquieu wrote:
21 Aug 2019 11:14
I saw this turntable at the Munich show and took some pics.

I didn't hear it play but the close up look and feel was very disappointing.

First of all it's direct drive rather than an idler - which I guess is ok but it means that the original isn't being recreated, it's merely the style / look of the original. Disappointment no 1.

Disappointment no 2 was the plastic body which is also the wrong colour.

Disappointment no 3 was the relatively flimsy platter though depending on the motor something I guess can be done aftermarket with that.

Disappointment no 4 - only two speeds (no 78) while the lever was just an electrical switch - no nice 'clunk' as you move between stepper settings.

Finally - the arm. I hope it's not compulsory to have that tonearm - not sure about the new version but the original is certainly capable of taking a lot better.

The price - the equivalent of £10,000 GBP - is probably unsurprising in this world of rip-off 'brand positioning' exercises but the least said the better. Its a bit dishonest recycling the visual design - which was always a bit pedestrian - rather than all the internal engineering stuff that made it a high performer and still desirable over 50 years on.

All in all a complete and utter missed opportunity.

https://i.imgur.com/kljcseP.jpg
What you saw must have been a prototype since it hasn't entered the production state yet, it isn't even in pre-production. They are still working on it. From images posted by Thorens on their FB-page, one can see that it has an all metal chassi / frame. It do looks like quite much effort has gone into it. But yes, it won't use old technology - only new parts, new development.

user510
senior member
senior member
Posts: 505
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 19:36
Location: Raymond, Wa. USA
Contact:

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by user510 » 29 Nov 2019 02:08

Hopefully the TD124DD won't use the same transport as is used on their current TD402DD. That one reviewed poorly. Actually it generated a scathing rebuke from reviewer M. Fremer.
Link to that review: https://www.analogplanet.com/content/th ... -turntable
Fremer's ending comment: "The Thorens name and reputation deserve far better than this."

https://i.imgur.com/kljcseP.jpg

Based on the one photo we see in this thread, the Td124DD doesn't look impressive. The chassis might be aluminum but not too much trouble was taken to make it appear exactly as the original. Note how the speed switch knob is repeated over on the arm lift. Note how the edges around this chassis are almost sharp where the original chassis had generous radii at all edges. it looks like a hurry up last minute job.

In the photo, It appears that the arm in use just might be the Swissonor TA-10...which is a further development of the original Thorens BTD-12S, which became the TP14 and finally the TP25, of which, likely, the TA-10 is a close copy.

I could think of better arms to choose for a modern direct drive Thorens that would utilize the TD124 moniker. And I mean this regardless of the fact that Thorens did use the TP14 as oem equipment on the TD124 mkII. All in all, I suspect this TD124 DD blurb is more hype than reality. And, if there is any real intent to produce one, hopefully what they do produce is put together with far better care than anything we've seen to date from this new Thorens firm. Like Mikey says: "The Thorens name and reputation deserve far better than this."

-Steve

raphaelmabo
long player
long player
Sweden
Posts: 2097
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 21:01
Location: Askersund, Sweden
Contact:

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by raphaelmabo » 09 Dec 2019 19:07

user510 wrote:
29 Nov 2019 02:08
Hopefully the TD124DD won't use the same transport as is used on their current TD402DD. That one reviewed poorly. Actually it generated a scathing rebuke from reviewer M. Fremer.
Link to that review: https://www.analogplanet.com/content/th ... -turntable
Fremer's ending comment: "The Thorens name and reputation deserve far better than this."
I contacted Thorens about that review and I got the answer from them that M. Fremer had reviewed a pre-production unit, not a production unit so the turntable he got was still in development. They wrote to me that they had recognized the problem and changed things, so I guess this means that production units are cured. They also wrote that they were in discussion with M. Fremer.

The TD402 has got a great review in the german Hifi Star magazine, the verdict was that it has a sound quality way above what could be expected at it's price class.

I also asked Thorens about who has designed and developed the TD402 and their other new turntables after Gunter Kürten became CEO and new owner, and they told me that Helmut Thiele (industrial designer, famous for many Thorens products in the past) and Walter Fuchs (passionate turntable lover from Fink Audio Team) were still in the core team and has done the R&D on the new products. Thiele & Fuchs previously designed and developed the TD309-206/209-203 series and the TD90x-series together with Karl Heinz Fink when Heinz Rohrer was the CEO. They also designed the new TP92, 90 and the unipivot TP82 tonearm.

When it comes to the TD 124 DD, it's still in development and hasn't entered pre-production stage yet. We will know more about it next year. Thorens has only showed prototypes, it's not ready yet. I believe we should wait to judge it until the development has finished and it has entered production.

From the TD402 story we learn that we shouldn't judge pre-production or prototype-versions. And Thorens shouldn't let reviewers look at their products before they have entered production. But I can also understand that they want to show products at shows to receive interests and orders before production start. This is also about receiving reactions so they can change things when the product is still in development.

raphaelmabo
long player
long player
Sweden
Posts: 2097
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 21:01
Location: Askersund, Sweden
Contact:

Re: New Thorens TD124DD

Post by raphaelmabo » 09 Dec 2019 19:48

Re: "put together with far better care than anything we've seen to date from this new Thorens firm.". I don't know what you mean by that. I'm a happy owner of the TD203 and I don't feel it to be of lower quality than my TD280 from the "old" Thorens company, on the contrary! The finish is better. I have also seen and used other new products from Thorens such as the TD309, TD350 and TD2015 and the TD800 (one of the first models for the new version of Thorens, now no longer in production). I finds them to be true classics with great fit, finish and attention to details. But with a different design than in the past, especially the TD309 is unique.

But I do know that there are older Thorens users that wants Thorens to make products that looks like the old ones, and that's why Gunter Kürten has given the order to Helmut Thiele to make new turntables with design inspired by vintage Thorens products from the 60's and 70's. That's why they gave the new TD1600/1601 a big aluminum platter instead of the glass platter of the TD309 and with the suspension inside the plinth instead of on a sub-chassi beneath it.

But the TD309 is my favourite design, my favourite Thorens of all time because it looks so fresh and modern and art deco and is a new take on Turntable design and ideas. I'm going to get one when my wallet allows. :) I also likes how it plays records with a good cartridge.

Post Reply