Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

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tom6to1
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by tom6to1 » 10 Dec 2017 19:52

Ah, I didn't know about having to use that specific screw. Hmmm... It is possible to try a modification of what I suggested, along the lines of what you want to do with epoxy. You need to create a "bushing" (sorry, not a machinist so I am probably using the wrong word) that is threaded to fit the screw in question. Consider it a tall, thin washer. You would have to drill out the existing hole to fit the bushing, and then install the bushing. Needs to be a tight fit with epoxy to hold it in place. Maybe simpler to drill out the hole, install a solid metal plug, then drill and tap that plug to fit the screw. These are just an ideas. I have never tried anything like this with metal, and I suspect if I had to I would find the need for very good and precise tools to try to make such a part and modification. Do you have any friends that are machinists? Good luck with the solution you have chosen and tell us if it works.

BourbonCowboy
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by BourbonCowboy » 23 Jan 2018 05:25

I might have just discovered audio nirvana. I had an old Shure V15LT cartridge that had no stylus that I always wanted to play on the SL-MA1. A little over a month ago, I checked the JICO site and found that they had the original N35 SAS (not the neoSAS) stylus available. I bought one. Shipping was delayed, but it arrived a couple weeks ago.

Installing it made me nervous, as it took a bit of force, but it fit. I tested it on Springsteen's Born to Run album and it was absolutely fantastic. Then I tested it on an original 1959 mono copy of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. The notes just washed over me like a wave. I've always questioned the hype about that cartridge, but now I understand. It's fantastic on the MA1. Unfortunately, JICO has discontinued the stylus again...and I only bought one of them. :(

http://www.markpricephotography.com/img ... 3715-4.jpg

http://www.markpricephotography.com/img ... 3714-4.jpg

lreneat
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by lreneat » 04 Feb 2018 00:33

I have a Technics SL-QD33 which is a nice player for general listening. My biggest beef with the player is that it does not have a cuing arm. Slider and button cuing action does not really cut it for me as being ideal. I also have a Technics SL-D1 which has the desired cuing arm. Could be that the P-Mount design was never intended to be compatible with 1/2" cartridge mounting which often came with desirable cuing arm. Manual cuing arm is very desirable when using more pricey cartridges which typically have a fragile stylus.

fscl
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by fscl » 08 Feb 2018 15:29

SA-708 wrote:....snippage......
The SL-MA1 (the US non-headshell version) was a more recent purchase; a few years back I put a minimum bid on one on eBay and was surprised a few days later when I won. It lives in my office at work, and is currently wearing an ADC PSX-40 cartridge and Nagaoka TS-623 Disc Stabilizer.

I think I scanned the literature for both cartridges mentioned above, and uploaded them to the library here, as well as the leaflet for my HOMC Dynavector DV-10P, a favorite of mine that seems to be quite rare.
Now that the topic has been bumped, been catching up on reading on the M's....... :)

Thank you for the ADC with PSX scans. With the help of VE and fleabay was able to source a NOS ADC - 40 needle for a PSX body and 20 needle purchased new a long time ago..... :shock:

Just curious, how do you find the performance of the PSX-40 compared to the DV-10P........ :-k :-k :-k

Inquiring minds want to know and TIA

Fred

fscl
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by fscl » 08 Feb 2018 15:43

lreneat wrote:I have a Technics SL-QD33 which is a nice player for general listening. My biggest beef with the player is that it does not have a cuing arm. Slider and button cuing action does not really cut it for me as being ideal. I also have a Technics SL-D1 which has the desired cuing arm. Could be that the P-Mount design was never intended to be compatible with 1/2" cartridge mounting which often came with desirable cuing arm. Manual cuing arm is very desirable when using more pricey cartridges which typically have a fragile stylus.
Conjecture only, thinking that the move to sliders was to move all controls from under the dustcover out to the front where they could be manipulated without raising the dust cover....... :-k :-k :-k

Which actually makes no sense since if you are cueing the arm, you will have to manually move the tonearm to the desired track anyway...... #-o Which also leads me to believe this was done in conjunction with more automatic features built into turntables. Hit auto start, lower the dust cover, let the tt do it's thing and if you don't want to listen to the entire side, slide the cueing over to the right, lift the cover and reload with another vinyl....... :-k :-k :-k

My Denon DP-33F has fully exposed controls outside of the dust cover, the cueing is done with a combination button and rotary knob. Depress the knob and turn the rotary portion to another track w/o having to raise the dust cover at all unless you want to flip the side or change the music.

Fred and random hypothesizing.......:-k :-k :-k

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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by Peter4103 » 29 May 2018 19:56

I've just bought a Technics SL M1 with S shaped tonearm. Will pick it up next week. It is to temporary replace my SP10MK2 for which I have a new plinth and bought the EPA 500 arm. Whilst away, I'll run the M1 deck. Can't wait!

However, I am trying to find information about the S arm tube and the arm weight as I want to understand compliancy restrictions for the cart. I've been reading a lot of the postings (not all I must admit) and it seems almost everyone has this deck (or de M2, M3) with the Pmount arm.

Hope someone can help me get the right S arm specs for this table? Would much appreciate!

allaboutmusic
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by allaboutmusic » 28 Jun 2018 15:16

Peter4103 wrote:I've just bought a Technics SL M1 with S shaped tonearm. ....
Hope someone can help me get the right S arm specs for this table? Would much appreciate!
Hi there,

Good choice, I own one of these myself and I am happy. I can recommend the ortofon X series MC pickups very well. A simple Shure M92 will do it, too. But you will not enjoy the fantastic details this turntable is able to deliver.

For specifications have a look at this manual:
https://www.vinylengine.com/ve_download ... upp_en.pdf

Let me know how you like your new temporary player!

constantinus
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by constantinus » 10 Jul 2018 16:28

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie regarding turntables. Lately however, I found that I enjoy making time for listening to clear music, without distractions.

I researched for a few weeks, and decided that instead of an Audio-Technica LP120, an older turntable would serve me better. I like well made things that last. A Technics SL-1200 is a big investment for a beginner, so I looked at the local ads for other Technics, B&O, Dual, Yamaha, Thorens, Grundig.

I found a Technics SL-M1 with S-arm and Ortofon VMS 30 Mk II, for 300 €.
I read what I could about it and it seems to be quality equipment, well it was when new.

The problem is that the cover is missing and the buttons are worn, see the photos. The needle is probably in a similar shape. Another flag is that the ad has been up for a month, still unsold.

I will look at it tomorrow, in an audio shop.
What should I look out for? Is 300 € a reasonable price? Does it look so worn that it would give me only headaches?

Thank you.
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audiopile
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by audiopile » 10 Jul 2018 18:13

Since I operate Mo's no kill shelter for neglected and abused SL-1200's - I'm probably not to be taken seriously. I own some really nasty looking -beat up 1200's - but they make beautiful music. Here's the check out list:
a.) It's a technics Quartz lock DD - very likely it will run on speed - but do check that it can do both 45 and 33 on speed.
b.) The cosmetic damage is probably there to stay - the wear on the power button indicates really high hours/lots of use - buy it with this in mind.
c.) My main concern would be the arm . If not abused or maladjusted - this arm should be fine -even though it's probably got more hours of use than the lifespan of some of our members on this forum. But this is the big "BUT" -if damaged ? - I don't think these arms have been available as a factory spare part for 20+ years ? OR does some forum member know for a FACT that this is replaceable with a NOS SL-1200 arm ?I have only worked on the Pmount version of this table/arm.
d.) I don't think you are terribly likely to find a replacement dust cover.But -heck keep a eye on da bay -who knows ?
e.) We have a phrase in the USA "buyin a pig in a polk". This refers back to a Davey Crocket story about a frontiersman being sold a polk (bag in modern English)with a piglet in it - long story -but turns out there's a Possum in that polk.If you are buyin really old audio gear (and this table is) - you want to hear it making music - not just spinnin - but can it play a decent condition record and does it sound good ? Will the store give you any length of money back warranty on it ? That's a excellent cart - but hours on the stylus are unknown ? Will they throw in and install a new cart ( AT-95e ,Rega carbon ,Ortofon OM5e/10 ,Ortofon 2M Red ,etc.... but something that has new styli made by the original manufacturer available to you in the future. I think Wm. Thaker had VMS-30 styli a while back -but they would be pricey.

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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by constantinus » 14 Jul 2018 16:20

Dear audiopile,

Thank you for your quick and comprehensive advice.

I finally managed to check out the Technics SL-M1 yesterday. It is a massive beast, with precision mechanics and sensitive needle, I could draw parallels but will stop here. I didn't buy it, at least not yet.
Turns out that they have at least fifteen other turntables for sale, complete, from the same period (mostly Technics - three with Quartz DD -, Yamahas, also Onkyo (?), Grundig), for around 100$ apiece. The girl there wasn't pushy, I noticed them on shelves. She left me alone, but was polite to answer.
There are also amplifiers, tuners, stacked on old wooden shelves, up to the ceiling. Various speakers, in the other room, neatly displayed on shelves. All used, but looking great, also around 100$ each. It was a like a treasure trove, I forgot how much fun that is. But I digress.

Anyway:
a) Motor. Both 45 and 33 speeds work fine. She let me choose records from a box, to test the turntable. I tested with three different discs, the last one was some opera. The sound didn't wobble one bit, so the rpm is stable. The other records sounded ok as well, so I guess the speeds are correct.

b) Button wear. It is there. The scratch on the aluminium panel, too. I was expecting old-school, mechanical push buttons, the microswitch based buttons were a nice surprise. It is "Modern", although mechanical switches would have been more reliable, probably.
I noticed that the "cueing" button doesn't always do its job. I read about this frequent problem beforehand. Sometimes it takes four pushes, sometimes one, to lift the needle. Putting it down always works on first push, interestingly. This suggests that the problem is not with the switch (which I thought I could change), but something with the electronics, if that's possible. Bad news, but not a deal breaker.
I love how slowly and gently the dampener puts down the needle, I have never seen it this slow.

c) Arm. I wiggled a bit the arm's base, not too strongly of course, in directions where it shouldn't move. It does, maybe about half a millimeter or less? I don't know how precise this should be - rotate the way it should, but not wiggle at all?
Since the Start/stop button is worn, but the Cueing one isn't, combined with knowledge that the 1200 model is favored by DJs who "scratch", could it be that the arm is also worn because of that? How? I have no idea what components are stressed by "scratching", maybe the motor, and this model does not have a pitch slider, which seems important in their job.
Procuring and fitting a non-dedicated replacement arm seems a bit too much for me.

d) Cover. I found a dust cover on eBay, for 50 or 70$. Not the hard cover, but a universal, shape-holding canvas cover. I told the girl in the shop about the difficulty in finding a cover, and she agreed. Which is a bad sign, because I guess they should be telling the customers that it's easy to find replacements, so the covers must be really rare. She seemed to be open about all this.

e) Warranty. They do offer three months warranty, then post-warranty service. I don't think it is money-back warranty, though. As far as I know, the law says 14 days, money back, no questions asked, but that is for new products.
We also have a similar saying in Hungarian, but it's actually about buying a "cat in a bag", i.e. unknown.

Now, the audition part, if you're still awake:
High frequencies sounded muddy. I could have started with that.
I turned down the volume as soon as she let me, the bass down, treble up, on the amplifier. Unnatural, of course, but it sounded crowded, unclear, with side harmonics, if those are what I probably mistakenly think they are. Could be the record, the speakers, the amplifier, the needle. Ok, change the record. Still muddy.
Alright, different speakers. The same. At that point, I was almost certain it was the needle, because come on, a serious solid state amp's phono input can't be that bad and the record didn't seem scratched, nor do I believe that badly stored and half-molten records lose only their treble, if that were the case.
I looked at the stylus with the magnifying glass that I brought, but that thing needs a microsocope. I still noticed a few hairs on it and blew them away, but the sound stayed the same.
She was nice and looked for another cartridge or stylus to try out, but all the other Technics were straight-arm, P-mount ones and no Ortofon needles. She finally produced a Wega head from the back room and mounted that onto the arm (in retrospect, how is that possible, is the thread standardized?).
Now the highs sounded clearer, but still muddy, to some degree.
She said that her more knowledgeable colleague is on his way for the evening shift, but that was half an hour ago and I had places to be, so I left, with the promise that I'll eventually be back.

I looked up and found Stereoneedles.com, they have the "Stylus D30 MKII Genuine Original Stylus for VMS 30 MK II, VMS 30, Nude Fine Line, Interchangeability/Upgrade Group: B", for 224$, but it's out of stock, like half of their Ortofon needles.

The speakers were next to each other on the floor, so I don't know about one channel being louder than the other, but they didn't seem different.

Hmm, while writing this, I had a flashback about the counterweight, turned to 1 or 2, I think, but more importantly, the antiskate being at 0. Which is not where it was supposed to be, right? Could that be it? I didn't touch it, being a beginner in an audio shop. The front edge of the cartridge looked horizontal/perpendicular to the grooves while playing, as far as I could eyeball it.
Maybe I should look up the correct weight for the Ortofon VMS30 Mk2 and set the turntable up or have her/him set it up, next week, when I visit them. Any ideas on whether and how the weight, antiskate or stylus wear might affect high frequencies?

Thank you.

PS: You have no idea how tempted I was to address you with "Pile of audio", but it didn't sound nice and I'm a polite person, so I didn't. Great username, though.

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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by audiopile » 14 Jul 2018 18:06

"pile of audio" - how'd you get into my basement ? I'm not sure what to recommend to you ? The wear on the start button is pretty extreme -maybe this unit was used in a bar or coffee house for some years -8-20 hours a day ? This series of Technics tables are vastly un-appreciated - mostly because so many of them were P-mount only. P-mount tables/arms aren't necessarily of poor quality -some of course are perilously close to junk -but Technics was the main prompter of the T4P standard and made a number of fine tables that took that series of carts. Since Pmounts are less desirable -as you've noticed- they sell cheap. If they've got a bunch of Pmount Technics tables and you are just starting out in vinyl- these might be a reasonable starting point ? On ANY used table -I'd just assume that any stylus is worn out - untrained -you will not be able to examine a stylus even with a 200X microscope and know whether it's usable or not. Keep this firmly in mind "RECORDS ARE RREPLACEABLE" - worn needles will permanently damage records. So- question is - what can you get brand new in a T4P cartridge ? The very nice thing with T4P is you tracking force and alignment are done by simply mounting the new cart (make sure you get the crossbolt that helps secure Pmount carts to the tonearm - these are small and have a tendency to take one bounce and disappear) ,second nice think is that AT still makes some outright cheap T4P cartridges. Disadvantage- very limited upgrade path within the P Mount standard if you want brand new unused product. You are better off with a new cart/stylus and then go out and spend money on records. My personal goal is in any given year try and spend more money on records/CD's than on equipment -but take care of those records.This shop sounds like a great resource. Good hunting.

constantinus
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by constantinus » 15 Jul 2018 00:19

Thanks for the insight.

I did look at the other turntables, even looked up some of the Technics ones, but I either couldn't find opinions or they were mediocre (vinylengine is great in that respect, too). They were all in pretty good shape, but there's a reason why this Sl-M1 is three times more expensive, even as it is. Still, if it needs a new stylus or cartridge, it's beginning to look overpriced.
I will take a better look at the other ones, next time.

Regarding old audio/video equipment, maybe you'd enjoy Techmoan on YouTube. I recently discovered the channel, the guy reviews some wonderfully weird old devices. Did you know that there was a video system, with front loading players, records in cartridges, made of carbon coated vinyl, and the stylus followed the groove but it read capacitively? Several of Scwarzenegger's action movies were published also on that medium. Or the Sony NT System, with stamp-sized cassette tapes, digital, with rotating head? It does take a lot of time to watch these, though.

bigaltx24
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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by bigaltx24 » 27 Jul 2018 02:13

SL-MA1 owner here, I used to be belt drive fan, but since getting the SL-MA1 I rarely listen to the couple of belt drives I have.

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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by BourbonCowboy » 30 Jul 2018 06:23

bigaltx24 wrote:SL-MA1 owner here, I used to be belt drive fan, but since getting the SL-MA1 I rarely listen to the couple of belt drives I have.
It's funny how one of these tables can change you. I have a pair of Marantz 6300 tables that just collect dust now that I have a couple of MA1 tables.

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Re: Official Technics SL-M1, SL-M2, SL-M3 Thread

Post by RobotB9 » 16 Aug 2018 07:44

constantinus wrote:Dear audiopile,

Thank you for your quick and comprehensive advice.

I finally managed to check out the Technics SL-M1 yesterday. It is a massive beast, with precision mechanics and sensitive needle, I could draw parallels but will stop here. I didn't buy it, at least not yet... <snip>

c) Arm. I wiggled a bit the arm's base, not too strongly of course, in directions where it shouldn't move. It does, maybe about half a millimeter or less? I don't know how precise this should be - rotate the way it should, but not wiggle at all... <snip>

d) Cover. I found a dust cover on eBay, for 50 or 70$. Not the hard cover, but a universal, shape-holding canvas cover. I told the girl in the shop about the difficulty in finding a cover, and she agreed. Which is a bad sign, because I guess they should be telling the customers that it's easy to find replacements, so the covers must be really rare. She seemed to be open about all this... <snip>
Just to help with two of your points...

With respect to the tonearm, it should not wiggle noticeably at the bearings, and especially should not "click" back and forth as you wiggle it - it indicates wear. I had an arm issue with my SL-M2 and was forced to buy a problematic second SL-M2 to scavenge the arm. The second table is usable (wiring issue), so I may try to retrofit a SL-1200 arm to it to keep the table alive.

Secondly, you actually may be able to find a cover if the SL-M1 is the same size as the SL-M2. Just look for covers for the SL-1700 MKII (I'm not sure about the 1600 and 1800 MKII's). I have the SL-1700MKII, and actually did order a SL1700MKII lid for my SL-M2. The lids are both about 17.5"x13.5" at the base by 3" tall with double slots for the hinges on 11" centers with hinge slots about 1 5/8" apart (inner slots are about 9 5/16" apart from each other). The only downside is you probably won't find a smoke cover, only clear. Just research whether the SL-M1 had the same size lid as the SL-M2.

Good luck with yours,
Leo

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