Technics 1200 Tonearm not moving towards spindle

[Alex123411]

Hello,

I am having an issue it seems with my anti skate. I saw a video online that said you can test and see if your anti skate is set properly by using a blank vinyl. I noticed that when I use a blank vinyl my tone arm does not go towards the spindle. If the anti skate is set to 0 it stays in position, but never moves toward the spindle. What could cause this? I have the tracking force set to the manufacturers recommend 1.75 and the tone arm is level.

turntable: Technics SL-1200M3D
cartridge: SHURE M97xE

thank you,
Alex

[AudioSoul]

If the arm is staying centered that is a good thing. Anti-skating is suppose to counter act the grooves tendency to push the arm towards the center and do damage to the grooves. Thats why they call it ANTI skate......

[Alex123411]

Right, I guess my question arose out of adjusting the anti-skate. While adjusting I noticed that while the anti skate was set to zero there was no movement. So while adjusting I noticed there was no need for it because the tonearm was not moving towards or away from the spindle. My question was was more of is that normal, for there to be no force on the tone arm moving it towards the spindle with the anti skate off?

[smeg68]

On a blank vinyl there will be no horizontal force in either direction. On a grooved vinyl there will be a force towards the spindle because the groove is moving in that direction - this is basically the inertia of the arm and cartridge. Antiskate is applied to add a force AWAY from the spindle to counter this.

[Lemesee]

I've had the skate act a little wacky on my SL1200 too, experiencing the opposite as you, if it was'nt at least half a gram higher than tracking force, it would shoot across a blank record and ride up onto the label. As mentioned blank grooves are not exactly a representation of in the groove action, or where the arm is on the record, the force will be more toward the center. I could only get it to stand still around the middle on blank. The Spring loaded skate of the 1200 has its drawbacks, another thing, it does not behave consistently. After setting it to float at center, sometimes I recheck it later and it does'nt float anymore (on same blank record), I don't know if all 1200 arms are like that, but mine is.

[cafe latte]

To test the antiskate on an sl1200 set the antiskate to zero, then float the arm by adjusting the counter weight. Now with the stylus guard on balance the arm so the needle is just above the record. Now dial in your antiskate and when you do your arm should swing back towards the rest, if it does not there may be a problem.
Regards
CL

[lionfish]

Hi folks:

I am new to the forum but have listened to vinyl LPs for years (and just getting back into it again). I searched for several strings on SL1200 and antiskate. I just bought a used (not DJ abused) SL1200 mk2 in great condition. Arm is original and it has a new original Technics headshell with an older AT70L cart. I have carefully followed arm balancing, cartridge set up, etc, advice using this forum and other on line sources.

My problem is that with the VTF dialed in to 2.0g, if I dial in antiskate (AS) to the same, I find that when I lower and raise the arm, then lower it again, the needle sets down a little bit away from the previous site and toward the outer aspect of the disc. There seems to be no issue with tracking - things sound good. I tried to adjust the AS so that I could put the needle down in the same position each time, but this requires AS set to zero, or very slightly above. I have rebalanced the arm with AS off, checked for binding in the bearings (can't feel anything of note) and even looked at the wires to see if there was tension leaving the arm. With the arm balanced and AS at 0, it hovers nicely in place; if I dial in some AS, it starts to move toward the armrest. I do not have a blank grooveless disc to try. Tracking force is dead on and even with the AS set close to 0, the arm tracks great as far as I can tell (no skips) and I don't hear any adverse effects (might be I am not 100% sure what to listen for!).

I know this has been kicked around a few times, but can anyone summarize if this is a bad thing and if so how I can diagnose and fix the problem?

Thank you!

Lionfish

[cafe latte]

Hi folks:

I am new to the forum but have listened to vinyl LPs for years (and just getting back into it again). I searched for several strings on SL1200 and antiskate. I just bought a used (not DJ abused) SL1200 mk2 in great condition. Arm is original and it has a new original Technics headshell with an older AT70L cart. I have carefully followed arm balancing, cartridge set up, etc, advice using this forum and other on line sources.

My problem is that with the VTF dialed in to 2.0g, if I dial in antiskate (AS) to the same, I find that when I lower and raise the arm, then lower it again, the needle sets down a little bit away from the previous site and toward the outer aspect of the disc. There seems to be no issue with tracking - things sound good. I tried to adjust the AS so that I could put the needle down in the same position each time, but this requires AS set to zero, or very slightly above. I have rebalanced the arm with AS off, checked for binding in the bearings (can't feel anything of note) and even looked at the wires to see if there was tension leaving the arm. With the arm balanced and AS at 0, it hovers nicely in place; if I dial in some AS, it starts to move toward the armrest. I do not have a blank grooveless disc to try. Tracking force is dead on and even with the AS set close to 0, the arm tracks great as far as I can tell (no skips) and I don't hear any adverse effects (might be I am not 100% sure what to listen for!).

I know this has been kicked around a few times, but can anyone summarize if this is a bad thing and if so how I can diagnose and fix the problem?

Thank you!

Lionfish

You turntable sounds perfect to me. Antiskate is to stop the stylus trying to climb the wall of the grooves in play so an oposite force is needed which is about the same as your downforce unless you use a cart with a stylus brush. With carts with brushes you seem to need a bit more antiskate than is often recommended for the brush IMO. Anyway if your arm with zero antiskate is able to hover when balanced, and swings when antiskate is dialed in you are fine just add the same antiskate as your downforce and you wont be far off. The rubber on the arm cuing rest I have found makes cuing a bit hard on Technics but you get used to it. I am wondering if the rubber on yours that prevents this slip you describe has gone a bit hard or is missing.
Regards
CL

[LPM]

lionfish,

I agree with what CL said and I personally wouldn't worry seeing that there is no resultant problem.

You must remember you are raising and lowering the arm mechanically and if the lifter has any slope be it from wear, misalignment or even a TT out of level, what you are experiencing might happen. My stylus normally returns to the same (or an adjacent) track after a lift and set down but my deck and hence lift mechanism is relatively new and I raise and lower slowly.

Anti-skate forces are quite low so I can't see how the arm would move sideways whilst sitting on a completely level, good condition lift pad at normal VTFs. However, at low VTF settings with a rapid lift, I could imagine the arm being induced to bounce lightly on the pad and perhaps move a little sideways depending on the anti skate force set. Alternatively, I could also imagine the arm/stylus moving slightly sideways on set down once the pad is withdrawn but only if the anti-skate is incorrectly set. Personally I'd check/investigate what I could and yes ideally, it would be nice to have co-incident lift and set down points, but not a big deal if all else is OK.

[lionfish]

Thanks LPM and CL! Because you (and others) have spent a lot of time with this issue and other ones on general set up, it made it much easier for me to understand what I was trying to do. I went with CL's suggestion and tried the AS setting around the downforce value. Then I listened a few times to the same track segment through cans and think I have found a sweet spot pretty close to the track force. I am usually pretty cautious with arm lowering, but I agree with you both that although this might affect the set down position it is not really relevant if the music sounds right. I will check the lift pad for any deterioration or dirt. Thanks much and happy listening.