Technics Stock Leads Capacitance Way Too High!!

by **cafe latte** » 30 Jul 2010 04:24

The new leads including the arm wires are 76pf's and they are the same length as the old ones!!! I have just put the base on and given it a quick trial to see if I could tell any difference. After about 3 seconds of Fleetwood mac it was clear this was going to be a huge, I mean really huge change. I have esl57 speakers which are renound for being a bit treble light so adding to the problem with high capacitance is not really ideal. Now it sounds like someone has reconnected tweeters and wayyy wider on top of everything :shock:

I am truly stunned at the change. My total capacitance including the preamp now is only 176pf's, so low I may need to make the cap in the preamp a bit bigger!! My only problem is the cables were a bit thick so the metal plate covering the base of the arm inside the case would not go on, so for now I left it off, bit I feel this is far from ideal so i need to think of something.. Any ideas anyone???

by **Alec124c41** » 30 Jul 2010 05:53

Good work!
As for the plate, longer screws?

Cheers,
Alec

by **cafe latte** » 30 Jul 2010 06:00

I have tried both carts and they are both better, but the sure is so much better to the point it is like a different cart!! Anyone who has a Technics this is a must do upgrade!! The difference is night and day. Incidently now when I switch between the different loading you would have to be deaf not to notice the change, wereas before I had to convince myself there was a difference

$\:D/$

by **thumpin** » 30 Jul 2010 06:59

Mmm, capacitance meter ahh

Nice story Cafe'. Is the volume any better with the lead change?

by **cafe latte** » 30 Jul 2010 07:05

Do need to find a better solution, basically the old leads were folded over onto a clip on the round plate under the arm.Behind the plate the wires were wire tied to the board for extra security. Mine now has the wires wire tied to the board, but no plate. This has made the vta adjuster more stiff as the thicker wires drag a bit, but the benefit seems to be that now the vta will go lower which is more useful than higher for most carts. Also as the deck is for hifi use the wires seem secure enough as they are really unlightly to get pulled.One solution in the long run may be to make up a plate with two phono sockets on it. Longer screws may work but it would still make arm height adjustement stiff

by **cafe latte** » 30 Jul 2010 07:18

I never really noticed were I had it set on the amp before, but the detail ,soundstage and treble response is now amazing. I really can't help wondering if the big split on Those who love Technics and those who hate them could be anything to do with those who love them using carts that are more capacitance frendly and those who hate them have heard them with a cart that does not like high capacitance?? For me it is easy to see why many call them dead or closed in sounding. It is not somthing I had noticed before, but when I changed the leads it was like having your ears sringed out, everything was now open and clear sounding in comparison, so yes I supose now i have heard it with new leads before and after stock the sl1210 i is closed in and dead sounding, but it seems that it is not the fault of the TT, but simply the leads!!

by **Werner** » 30 Jul 2010 09:17

When I measured the leads of a stock SL-1200 MkII years ago, using an LCR meter of known accuracy in that range, I got 85pF all included.

by **cafe latte** » 30 Jul 2010 10:38

I checked my meter at the advice of at the time against a capacitor and it was correct. Also the lead I fitted I measured and the lead i removed was also checked and believe me the values are correct. I wonder if it on purpose is most clubs have lots of RF, hand held radios for example. We own a farm and if the missus goes to the back on her own she takes the hand held cb. If I am on the computer and she transmits the screen distorts. I am wondering if the high capacitance leads are fitted to combat rf in a club, but I does nothing for hifi and changing them transforms the TT

by **missan** » 30 Jul 2010 11:07

cafe latte
Is it possible for You to check both leads from the 1200. I have not seen such high value, they should at least be below 100pF.
missan

by **cafe latte** » 30 Jul 2010 13:31

I have checked them both on and off the TT both red and white they are both around 300pf's one was 299 the other was 304 there is no mistake. I am wondering if it on purpose for DJing as in a club there is a lot of RF which may interfere with a TT so having highly capacitive leads would help to filter this. I was suprised at the values, so much so that the moment I desoldered the leads I checked the leads on there own and the arm wires, and then the new leads I had made up. I use very high quality interconnect cable and now Including the arm wires the capacitance is 76pf and before it was 300. This is not such a suprise as the closer the two conductors in a wire the higher the capacitance. The stock cable has them very close and measures similar to el chepo leads, but good quality interconnects are thicker and the space between the shield and the center core is far greater so will have a far lower capacitance. I have a friend in Sidney who has checked his TT(sl1200) for me before I decided to pull mine apart (still under warranty) and his leads are within a few pf's of mine.

by **fscl** » 30 Jul 2010 15:26

cafe latte wrote:I have checked them both on and off the TT both red and white they are both around 300pf's one was 299 the other was 304 there is no mistake. I am wondering if it on purpose for DJing as in a club there is a lot of RF which may interfere with a TT so having highly capacitive leads would help to filter this. I was suprised at the values, so much so that the moment I desoldered the leads I checked the leads on there own and the arm wires, and then the new leads I had made up. I use very high quality interconnect cable and now Including the arm wires the capacitance is 76pf and before it was 300. This is not such a suprise as the closer the two conductors in a wire the higher the capacitance. The stock cable has them very close and measures similar to el chepo leads, but good quality interconnects are thicker and the space between the shield and the center core is far greater so will have a far lower capacitance. I have a friend in Sidney who has checked his TT(sl1200) for me before I decided to pull mine apart (still under warranty) and his leads are within a few pf's of mine.

clatte,

Great thread here and very interesting.........

Is there a manufacturer name stamped on the outer covering of the 5? wires used in the tonerm?

It seems that Technics / Matshusta used / changed supplier or changed the spec of the tonearm wires somewhere along the way of the SL-1200 run.

In troubleshooting an SL-10 with a broken lead, Technics used a 5 conductor cable [R, W, Y, BL, BLK(grnd) cu stranded], all wrapped in a fine wire mesh (shielding) opposite twist and encased in a plastic covering manufactured by Hitachi. This cable is surprisingly supple.... :oops:

What did you extract from your 1200? :?:

TIA

Fred and deciding on a cap meter and you are only as good as your tools....... :roll:

and thinking / wishing all the current stable of linears, JVC, AR, Pioneer are low capacitance...... :roll:

by **missan** » 30 Jul 2010 15:45

It seems then there has been a change of leads supplier. Would be good for those with these type of leads to change to a lower cap variant.
missan

by **cafe latte** » 31 Jul 2010 00:12

I did not change the arm wires, only the captive leads. The arm wires were tiny in the extreme so i did not really really notice what was printed on them. The captive lead has something printed on it AWM 2562 E81015 VW1 80C 300V HSD LF
My TT is still under warantee so I do not want to damage the old leads in case I need them (I could put them back on if I have a problem with the TT). I am wondering if the phono plugs are very high capacitance for some odd reason I am tempted to cut the plugs off old lead and see what that does. Has anyone measures there Sl1210 leads yet, even using a multi meter???

by **cafe latte** » 31 Jul 2010 07:48

Bit of an update.. Been playing with Y connectors and have made up a few plugs which are basically a phono plug with a tiny ceramic cap across the terminals. In this wat I was able to try different capacitive loadings at 47k and 62k on the sure m97xe. In all cases I prefered the 62k, but in the next days I would like to try 65 and 70 just to see. My total overall capacitance is now with new leads 176, being 76 interconnect and arm wires and 100 phono pre amp. This is really open and clean, not like the technics at all before. I tried 230pf overall, by adding a small cap in the y connector. It was still nice but lost something. My feeling is the optimum is somewere inbetween, maybe 200pf when I get time I will make up some more plugs. I think that 's 62k is probably correct, but it would be interesting to try values around it with various capacitive loadings. The changes are really suprising and in my opinion it goes some way to explain why some hate a particular cart (or TT) and others love it as I have heard what sounds like 3 different carts today, but each time it was the sure with a different loading. All good fun