Sp10 Mk.ii V. Fully Modded Sl-1200?

[mikenew]

Brett,
I cannot contribute much to the above, however I do notice that the SP series comes up for cpmparison again. I am receiving a lot of enquireies from people who want to know if my new bearing will fit their SPxxxx machine. I know the SP10 is a no-go but what about the others.
You seem to have experienced a lot of SP units so what would your answer be???

[Trajic]

Mike,

We touched on that a little in the bearing thread before all the silliness. According to Shoji the bearing/spindle assembly for the SP-25 is the same as the 1200mkII. He recommended contacting Vantage Audio. Dave also said he had an SP-25 in house and would check the fit. If you want I can send you one and you can check it out for yourself. Its a motor unit so if you wanted to listen to it you'd have to fab something up. PM me for details on that. It's not for sale so I don't want to hear from anybody else.

The SP-15 uses a different motor. I doubt your bearing will work. I messed around with the 15s for a while. There wasn't a whole lot of parts interchangeability between the 15 and the 25. They share the same footprint, that's about it. As you know, the SP10mkII is a completely different animal.

Brett Schultz

[ksoholm]

I did not say anything about the sonic qualities of torque. I said the decks are fundamentally different. But if measurements mean something, then high torque and heavy platter make an improvement.


That was not what I said. I said it was a waste putting a high-price arm on an SL-1200. Not that a good arm won't make an improvement, but because the same arm will sound even better on an SP-10. It makes no sense.

Analogous, you contradict yourself in two sentences. You originally said "But they are not the same. The SP-10 is higher torque than the SL-1200. In the case of the Mk III, it's 10 times higher."

You *clearly* imply higher torque is better; you confirm this by stating in your last post, " . . . then high torque and heavy platter make an improvement," immediately after saying "I did not say anything about the sonic qualities of torque." Which is it? More torque is better? Not better?

[ksoholm]

So far I've tried in a side by side comparison:

1. A fully modded KAB 1200mkII Vs. stock SL-1000.

Etc.

This is exactly what I'm after; thanks for the info!

[Trajic]

You're welcome. It's important to keep in mind that what sounds good to me might not sound that great to you. For example, there's people out there who like Rega tonearms. I can't stand them. Neither of us is wrong, people just have different preferences. When I first got into Technics I got a lot of lip about D/D 'tables being terrible. People just hated them. Now, some of those same people are asking me to sell some of my D/D 'tables. So, listen to your ears before you listen to anybody else.

As for what was previously said about the SP10s becoming landfill that simply isn't true. Funny, very funny but not true. It took me three years of looking to get mine. I love that turntable. I wrote a story about that turntable. Sometimes I drink a beer and just look at it in all its EPA-100 armed glory. When I was serving in Iraq I worried about my turntable. It is never going to a landfill as long as I live.

Parts for the SP-10mkII are very easy to come by. There's more than one aftermarket PSU for the SP-10mkII as well. There are many places that can service one (some of them contributors here). It's not hard to keep one going.

Brett Schultz

[ssportclay]

You're welcome. It's important to keep in mind that what sounds good to me might not sound that great to you. For example, there's people out there who like Rega tonearms. I can't stand them. Neither of us is wrong, people just have different preferences. When I first got into Technics I got a lot of lip about D/D 'tables being terrible. People just hated them. Now, some of those same people are asking me to sell some of my D/D 'tables. So, listen to your ears before you listen to anybody else.

As for what was previously said about the SP10s becoming landfill that simply isn't true. Funny, very funny but not true. It took me three years of looking to get mine. I love that turntable. I wrote a story about that turntable. Sometimes I drink a beer and just look at it in all its EPA-100 armed glory. When I was serving in Iraq I worried about my turntable. It is never going to a landfill as long as I live.

Parts for the SP-10mkII are very easy to come by. There's more than one aftermarket PSU for the SP-10mkII as well. There are many places that can service one (some of them contributors here). It's not hard to keep one going.

Brett Schultz

I saw a thread at Audiokarma where people were getting very upset over the scarce supply of circuit boards and ICs for expensive vintage direct drive turntables. The SP10 was included among these but perhaps I misspoke. Once these critical ICs become toast, these vintage turntables will no longer run without replacements. Once you can't get a replacement, you can either keep your turntable for decoration or pitch it into the dumpster. The SP10 may be OK but it might be very wise to scrounge up as many replacements as you can just the same.

[KentT]

The SL-1200 Mk II parts are still available. It's still in production. The SP-10, SP-15, and SP-25 have difficult to get parts. They're out of production. Many examples were used very heavily and hard in broadcast use. The SP-10 Mk II is better but it cost over $2000 us new sans plinth, tonearm and cartridge back in 1980. The SL-1200 is the best DD deck in current production for most uses. It's better engineered than most anything new.

[targeteye]

It would be very helpfull to post the sources of the plentiful Mark II SP-10 IC's. I've seen this posted a couple of times now. Where can these be had?

Steve

[ksoholm]

Mates,
I bring this up because of this lister's experiences between the two tables; very interesting: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22656 .

[analogous]

I did not say anything about the sonic qualities of torque. I said the decks are fundamentally different. But if measurements mean something, then high torque and heavy platter make an improvement.


That was not what I said. I said it was a waste putting a high-price arm on an SL-1200. Not that a good arm won't make an improvement, but because the same arm will sound even better on an SP-10. It makes no sense.

Analogous, you contradict yourself in two sentences. You originally said "But they are not the same. The SP-10 is higher torque than the SL-1200. In the case of the Mk III, it's 10 times higher."

You *clearly* imply higher torque is better; you confirm this by stating in your last post, " . . . then high torque and heavy platter make an improvement," immediately after saying "I did not say anything about the sonic qualities of torque." Which is it? More torque is better? Not better?

Don't be an idiot. I did not say high torque is better or worse.

But since you seem to have problem reading/comprehending, I'll be gentle.

The SP-10 has higher torque and heavier platter and bigger power supply.

It is a DIFFERENT DECK.

High torque in itself is probably not better. In the case of the SP-10, high torque is evidently better.

Heavier platter is ALWAYS better.

[ssportclay]

Mates,
I bring this up because of this lister's experiences between the two tables; very interesting: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22656 .

I concur: Whatever tonearm you own, you always want to choose a cartridge with a compliance that matches the mass of that tonearm. The SP10 is a better turntable than the 1200 MK2 but a properly set up 1200 can be made to sound better than a poorly set up SP10. No surprise there. Upgrade a 1200 MK2 with better parts than an SP10 then it is better. These things are just machines. You can change or upgrade any of them to sound anyway you want. Comparing turntables is tricky business. You can drive yourself crazy with this stuff if you take it all to seriously. Keep those turntables running and enjoy the music.

[ssportclay]

It would be very helpfull to post the sources of the plentiful Mark II SP-10 IC's. I've seen this posted a couple of times now. Where can these be had?


Let me know which ones you want and how many. I have no problem geting any of them in any quanitity.

Dave

Hi Dave: Shoji posted earlier that the custom ICs NLA for the Technics 1200 series were no longer available. This seems to pose some unanswered questions. Is this the reason the Technics 1200s are being discontinued. If the 1200s are still being manufactured, are substitute and compatible ICs being developed? I seem to have more questions than answers and Shoji seems to be holding back information.

[targeteye]

I don't know where Shoji is getting his information but I just confirmed that all three AN6XXX ICs for the sl-1200 are directly available from panasonic. The AN6675 is on backorder at the moment but it is supposed to be available again soon. (I spoke directly with a panasonic representative on teh 6675). The 4011 is no longer available from Panasonic but more than likely they do not build this themselves anymore as this is a non-proprietary Nand Gate.

No issues with the SL-1200 mk2 parts at all.

Steve

Edit: Could be Shoji was referencing the original 1200 not the MK2. I don't have a schematic of that one to see if it even has IC's in it. The SL-1300 does not.

[ssportclay]

I don't know where Shoji is getting his information but I just confirmed that all three AN6XXX ICs for the sl-1200 are directly available from panasonic. The AN6675 is on backorder at the moment but it is supposed to be available again soon. (I spoke directly with a panasonic representative on teh 6675). The 4011 is no longer available from Panasonic but more than likely they do not build this themselves anymore as this is a non-proprietary Nand Gate.

No issues with the SL-1200 mk2 parts at all.

Steve

Edit: Could be Shoji was referencing the original 1200 not the MK2. I don't have a schematic of that one to see if it even has IC's in it. The SL-1300 does not.

Thanks for the information. I have read various things where ICs could be a problem obtaining for the 1200s and that Panasonic may no longer be interested in supporting it in the future. It would be ironic if all of the 1200 owners ended up seeking out used SP10s because ICs were no longer available. There aren't enough SP10s out there to go around.