digital vs. vinyl comparison

compact disc, dacs, mp3 players and streaming audio
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cafe latte
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by cafe latte » 07 Dec 2019 10:52

vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
Well, to add some fuel to this...What was once retro is "in", including vinyl records and cassettes...

https://gearpatrol.com/2019/07/17/best-retro-tech/
https://mediag.com/blog/the-comeback-ki ... ity-again/
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/12/tech/vin ... index.html
https://www.pcr-online.biz/2019/05/30/c ... 12-months/
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... ket-newtab

And even as Michael Fremer says...Vinyl keeps getting better and better and better...



And yes, I have two or three large boxes of old VHS tapes that I don't plan on getting rid of any time soon, as I recorded some really good stuff on them...
Depends where you live. I had loads of VHS tapes but moving to tropics they all went mouldy, literally even keeping them with silica gel would not stop it. Decades of tapes died in 2 years.
Chris

Erin1
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Erin1 » 07 Dec 2019 11:42

Shadowman82 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 21:27
and yet allot of audiophiles still prefer Vinyl
Yes it's true.
BUT, those people who are audiophiles are at least I think, mostly in an older age group, who are used to the format and have much money invested in their record collection and in turntables and phono cartridges.

And, no question from me vinyl can sound fantastic. But I think there is also more snobbery and some ingrained behaviour from these people.
And, journalists from hifi magazines often fall into the above category, so the myths and biases get reported in magazines to perpetuate the story that vinyl is always better, and this is not always true...

The majority of music listeners are not audiophiles, with the fancy equipment.
They do enjoy music, but don't care so much about the equipment.

Beliefs if held tightly can influence a person to the extent that they don't perceive things correctly. Which is why it's so important to self question things every so often, so as to look freshly at the world.

Example, for a long time I refused to entertain the idea that streaming could sound ok. (Because of my ignorance and biases) But when I gave it a try I found that it exceeded my expectations and opened up an enormous world of new music I would probably never have heard without the streaming service. And the quality of sound is excellent.

I do fit into the audiophile category. Just without so much bias or snobbery.
Last edited by Erin1 on 07 Dec 2019 11:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Erin1 » 07 Dec 2019 11:49

vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
Well, to add some fuel to this...What was once retro is "in", including vinyl records and cassettes...
I am very aware of this. But just about 3 or 4 years ago in Australia the shops sold jeans with flared pants legs. This year they don't. Fashion comes and goes.

NOYB
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by NOYB » 07 Dec 2019 12:18

vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
I have two or three large boxes of old VHS tapes that I don't plan on getting rid of any time soon, as I recorded some really good stuff on them...
They have a shelf life. So at some point you may have a bunch of essentially blank tapes.
BTW. CDs also have a finite life span. As does vinyl. From what I have read vinyl has the longer life span (if cared for, not excessively played etc). Files probably have the potential for the longest lifespan.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Erin1 » 07 Dec 2019 12:21

vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
And even as Michael Fremer says...Vinyl keeps getting better and better and better...
I suppose you're aware he's highly biased?
I actually don't know what the comment above from Fremer is about because a vinyl record deteriorates during each play. It cannot get better.
And there is no new record technology. It is all old refurbished equipment. And analogue sound recording hasn't changed since the 1980's. There are no new analogue recorders. Vinyl can sound great, but it cannot get better. It's about as good as it's going to get, and just going to deteriorate. Factually, it will get worse and worse and worse.

Issuesman666
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Issuesman666 » 07 Dec 2019 12:37

I begrudgingly agreed a while ago that streaming and high resolution downloads will be the ways to go for me to get new music.

In my country Shipping music from the USA is expensive.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by NOYB » 07 Dec 2019 13:15

Erin1 wrote:
07 Dec 2019 12:21
vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
And even as Michael Fremer says...Vinyl keeps getting better and better and better...
I suppose you're aware he's highly biased?
I actually don't know what the comment above from Fremer is about because a vinyl record deteriorates during each play. It cannot get better.
And there is no new record technology. It is all old refurbished equipment. And analogue sound recording hasn't changed since the 1980's. There are no new analogue recorders. Vinyl can sound great, but it cannot get better. It's about as good as it's going to get, and just going to deteriorate. Factually, it will get worse and worse and worse.
Yup. And maybe I misunderstood but it seemed like he was comparing to one of the first ever made CDs.
During that time digital has probably progress at least as much as vinyl (much more in my opinion). I wonder if he had a real good digitalization of the vinyl if he could still tell the difference in a double blind test. Personally I doubt it.
Remember. CD quality is sort of at the low end of digital HiFi audio these days.

Oh and I also took offense of his comment about how most people listen to music while doing something because it is so bad that they can't sit down and listen. How presumption. Most people don't want to spend their life being an audio gear head. Sure am glad I can listen to music in the car.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by NOYB » 07 Dec 2019 14:21

NOYB wrote:
07 Dec 2019 13:15
Oh and I also took offense of his comment about how most people listen to music while doing something because it is so bad that they can't sit down and listen. How presumption. Most people don't want to spend their life being an audio gear head. Sure am glad I can listen to music in the car.
Some people just want to listen to the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgMzKMgNxw

plyscds
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by plyscds » 07 Dec 2019 16:13

You wanna talk "good" and "bad"? Name any commercial recording format except 78rpm 8-track, and I have recordings on those formats. There are good examples and there are bad examples. But, there is something that I value about them all or I wouldn't have them. Parents watch their children playing amateur sports and performing acrobatics, soccer, baseball, basketball, football, and tons of other activities without seeing professional levels of performance. Could it be that we do not always need perfection in fodder for our senses? Can we be happy watching our children help score a soccer goal while listening to Sinatra on our cell phones? I'd say there are those of us who can. And we don't need pundits telling us we're not having fun at the time.

vinyl master
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by vinyl master » 07 Dec 2019 20:41

cafe latte wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:52

Depends where you live. I had loads of VHS tapes but moving to tropics they all went mouldy, literally even keeping them with silica gel would not stop it. Decades of tapes died in 2 years.
Chris
Don't worry, guys...They are all kept in cool, dry storage now in a few boxes I bought from Bags Unlimited...And yes, I do still have a VCR or two socked away for when I need it...Ultimately, transferring over the good stuff on them is a goal for the future, but for now, they're protected from the elements and I actually got to go through a big swath of them to see what was on them and add labels to them...My biggest mistake was not labeling them properly from the get-go! #-o

vinyl master
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by vinyl master » 07 Dec 2019 21:19

Erin1 wrote:
07 Dec 2019 11:49
vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
Well, to add some fuel to this...What was once retro is "in", including vinyl records and cassettes...
I am very aware of this. But just about 3 or 4 years ago in Australia the shops sold jeans with flared pants legs. This year they don't. Fashion comes and goes.
Just a reminder that 3 or 4 years ago, they also sold vinyl...10 years ago, they were still selling vinyl...Even 15 years ago, vinyl was beginning to get into full swing...I can find many of the releases I might have wanted from the 2000's still on vinyl...Heck, I have about 1,000-2,000 45's just from 1990-2000 alone! #-o And what are they STILL selling as of 2019??? VINYL!! Flared jeans??? Bell bottoms??? Peasant shirts??? That stuff will come and go, but I have no doubt that vinyl will continue to get bigger...Even "American Idol" winner Kelly Clarkson is a big proponent of vinyl, as evidenced that she's mentioned it a number of times on her new talk show...She was just raving about Garth Brooks' new box set here, in fact...Listen from 1:26 to 2:32...



In another video, she shows one of her albums being made in candy apple red...



And then, of course, THIS news...

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... aa-880959/
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... yl-records

In any case, the growth surge is good for all of us who love music on whatever format we love it on, because it encourages better sound across the board!

vinyl master
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by vinyl master » 07 Dec 2019 21:25

NOYB wrote:
07 Dec 2019 12:18
vinyl master wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:29
I have two or three large boxes of old VHS tapes that I don't plan on getting rid of any time soon, as I recorded some really good stuff on them...
They have a shelf life. So at some point you may have a bunch of essentially blank tapes.
BTW. CDs also have a finite life span. As does vinyl. From what I have read vinyl has the longer life span (if cared for, not excessively played etc). Files probably have the potential for the longest lifespan.
I dunno...I have some Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra records from the 50's that sound amazingly good, even though they are going on 70 years now...I wonder what my files in 70 years will sound like, although at the same time, when those albums are 140 years old (and if the technology to play them is still around), I'm sure they'll still sound great... :-k

If my oldest recording is a cylinder record from the early 1900's and it can still be played today, I have no doubt the records will be just as durable with the proper care...

vinyl master
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by vinyl master » 07 Dec 2019 21:33

NOYB wrote:
07 Dec 2019 14:21
NOYB wrote:
07 Dec 2019 13:15
Oh and I also took offense of his comment about how most people listen to music while doing something because it is so bad that they can't sit down and listen. How presumption. Most people don't want to spend their life being an audio gear head. Sure am glad I can listen to music in the car.
Some people just want to listen to the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgMzKMgNxw
I do listen to music while I'm doing something else, like walking or in the car, but I also can appreciate the vinyl for what it is...There's nothing that says you can't enjoy the best of both worlds! I also can listen to music while cleaning records, working on gear, and other rituals associated with the hobby...Something about the tangibility of it all...:)

Of course, if you just want to listen to the music, that's cool, too! 8)

I wouldn't even be here, if I hadn't loved the music first! :wink:

Shadowman82
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Shadowman82 » 08 Dec 2019 00:29

I don't see how Vinyl can degrade if it's properly stored . It is known that all magnetic tape formats do degrade . As for CDs I have self recorded CDs that no longer work , pro recorded I haven't had one go bad yet . As for files , that kind of depends on the shelf life on hard discs . I'm also a bit worried about file formats becoming obsolete .

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by NOYB » 08 Dec 2019 00:57

Shadowman82 wrote:
08 Dec 2019 00:29
I don't see how Vinyl can degrade if it's properly stored . It is known that all magnetic tape formats do degrade . As for CDs I have self recorded CDs that no longer work , pro recorded I haven't had one go bad yet . As for files , that kind of depends on the shelf life on hard discs . I'm also a bit worried about file formats becoming obsolete .
Vinyl does have a shelf life. It is quite long but it is not infinite. Wood decays, steal decays, even plastic decays (very slowly but it does decay). Think I read somewhere the vinyl LP shelf life was somewhere in the couple hundred years vicinity.

Mag tape way less. Being spooled it may even be affected by transfer between adjacent layers. May be a good idea to re-spool them once in a while so that the layers don't stay in the same proximity for so long.

CDs also have a shelf life. It is pretty long but not as long as vinyl from what I understand. They are not impervious to the elements and their construction/assembly is not perfect.

Files can be backed up as exact copies on multiple devices in multiple locations. Major providers such as Apple etc. I'd think have a pretty robust backup/redundant system.

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