digital vs. vinyl comparison

compact disc, dacs, mp3 players and streaming audio
Shadowman82
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Shadowman82 » 18 Nov 2019 23:33

I have some CDs from the late 80s early 90s and I would agree that they sound better than CDs released later but to me they still don't sound as good as a good Vinyl release . I will concede that while my CD player is not a cheap crap model I obviously spent far less on it than on the components I use for Vinyl playback ( turntable , cartridge and phono pre amp) .

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Sterling1 » 04 Dec 2019 11:32

silvershadelynx wrote:
24 Aug 2018 01:34
Sorry if this topic has been discussed before, but tonight I did a comparison between two vinyl records and the digital version on Spotify. A year ago I compared the Pet Shop Boys "Yes" cd against the vinyl record and the vinyl record sounded better.

But this time both digital versions - Enya - Shepherd Moons (I have a 1991 pressing ) and Kraftwerk - Computer Love (recent pressing) - sounded better then the vinyl versions.

I compared the 1991 vinyl version of Enya - Sheperd Moons to a Spotify 2009 rematered version and tha latter sounded warmer (more LF) and "more spacious". The Kraftwerk sounded warmer as well on Spotify.

I was a bit disappointed by the results. I think I heard a subtle change in pitch / frequency when changing source. I think I have to check the rotation speed of my vinyl record player. But I'm wondering if it could be the cart / stylus causing the quality difference, and / or the pressing (theres a newer pressing of the Enya album), or is Spotify just better quality in this case? (I didn't expect this outcome). I use a AT100E cart / stylus and I use DIY electrostatic loudspeakers.
A well reasoned expectation is that CDs will indeed sound better in all manner that better can be discerned from LPs of same material. Interestingly enough, just the other day I was listening to two LPs produced in 1964, Barbara Streisand's People and The Swingle Singers Bach's Greatest Hits. Neither of these even comes close to the breadth and depth of CD versions of same, less distortion too, and no snap, crackle, and pop. Now, I still use my turntables, almost daily to play content I do not have on CD and to rip to iTunes; but, I'm re-thinking that process, since I can now download anything that's ever been recorded in the history of recorded music from Apple Music for just $9.99 a month and it all sounds great, really great, in fact on par with SACDs.

Shadowman82
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Shadowman82 » 04 Dec 2019 23:09

That's all good but some of us prefer to have physical albums wether that be CD or Vinyl .

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Issuesman666 » 05 Dec 2019 00:35

Some people like the tactile feel of Physical media in their hands or the look of a record spinning or the look of one tape reel feeding the other. I like to close my eyes and get lost in the music because those sensations I just described are all too fleeting.

I love great sounding music,not formats. As long it sounds great I listen.

Sterling1
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Sterling1 » 05 Dec 2019 00:51

Shadowman82 wrote:
04 Dec 2019 23:09
That's all good but some of us prefer to have physical albums wether that be CD or Vinyl .
All good, no it's not all good and that's why most folks on the Planet have moved to streaming, which better supports their life styles.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by pivot » 05 Dec 2019 01:58

vinylrayk wrote:
28 Aug 2018 15:59
Differences observed are more attributable to different mastering and/or other variables than to digital vs vinyl medium.
Yep - I'll second that. Different hands and ears involved in the mastering......so different results.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Issuesman666 » 05 Dec 2019 22:02

Sterling1 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 00:51
Shadowman82 wrote:
04 Dec 2019 23:09
That's all good but some of us prefer to have physical albums wether that be CD or Vinyl .
All good, no it's not all good and that's why most folks on the Planet have moved to streaming, which better supports their life styles.
I was against it at first but Streaming is the way of the future and for me will be the best way to get new music.

Shadowman82
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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Shadowman82 » 06 Dec 2019 02:57

All good, no it's not all good and that's why most folks on the Planet have moved to streaming, which better supports their life styles.
That's fair , I never said people can't consume their music that way , but just because the majority of people like streaming doesn't mean those of us who like physical albums such as Vinyl can't buy our music that way . If you're suggesting that physical albums will one day no longer exist maybe yeah but I actually see Vinyl lasting longer than CD .

I do feel that streaming services should be paying musicians more than they do . I read for instance that for a musician to get 1 dollar from spotify a song has to be streamed 256 times .

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Erin1 » 06 Dec 2019 08:35

For as long as there are consumers of new vinyl albums they will be manufactured. If the consumers disappear so will the manufacture.

CD can be replaced by an identical sounding download, or streaming service.
Lossless or lossy which is the consumers choice.

Vinyl has no equivalent replacement but looking at human history, id find it strange and surprising if people still play vinyl in 50 or 100 years.
There are so many things from the past we don't do, and items from the past we just don't use anymore.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Vinylfreak86 » 06 Dec 2019 11:04

Erin1 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 08:35


CD can be replaced by an identical sounding download, or streaming service.
Lossless or lossy which is the consumers choice.
But in this case you don`t have a physical collection, so this is the reason why a CD has a future. Also we all know how is with files and downloads, things can get lost very quickly.

Erin1 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 08:35
Vinyl has no equivalent replacement but looking at human history, id find it strange and surprising if people still play vinyl in 50 or 100 years.
There are so many things from the past we don't do, and items from the past we just don't use anymore.
Do you think so? We still drive cars with an internal combustion engine like it was invented more than 100 years ago, and also all electricity experiments are saying to us that this will still go on in the future. And we are producing electricity in thermal power plants using coal. #-o And in nuclear reactors producing toxic radioactive waste and to take risks that new Tschernobyl could happen.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Sterling1 » 06 Dec 2019 12:03

There are plenty of reasons to buy CDs/SACDs/Blu-Rays rather than renting or purchasing downloads. The foremost reason is discs have value, music on hard drive has no value. Second, music stored on hard drive can be lost from a multitude of process failures. Also, gapless multi-channel music is not at all convenient via download. It is not glitch free from HDMI play, and it is not gapless from Network play. Also, few apps can store multi-channel; plus, the number of clicks, driver setting adjustments, and other user actions just to play multi-channel from computer to home theater system is a daunting task, in some cases requiring a procedure which requires input selection via a TV and TV/Universal Player remote control. On the other hand, playing a multi-channel SACD is as easy as playing a CD. The bottom line here is although streaming has impacted CD sales, it is not yet a substitute for multi-channel music and it does not appear streaming services have any interest in it.

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Shadowman82 » 06 Dec 2019 21:27

I think even standard CDs have merit as long as popular streaming services only offer music in a "less than CD quality" resolution and even if they were on par with CDs as you pointed out hard discs do break , files get lost etc.

There are of coarse sites like HD Tracks that offer "better than CD quality" downloads but unfortunatly their offering is pitifully small compared to other services because allot of music is simply not available at those resolutions , same goes for multichannel audio . Though for me multichannel music was always a bit gimmicky but that's just my personal feeling .

Vinyl is an odd thing , we have technology/formats that is better than Vinyl ( SA-CD , better than CD digital) and yet allot of audiophiles still prefer Vinyl . I bother with Vinyl because to me it is the best sounding source of the music I like , if all the music I liked was available on SA-CD I'd get my music on SA-CD . I'd even be open to better than CD downloads but again not much of what I like is available as such .

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by Erin1 » 07 Dec 2019 10:11

Vinylfreak86 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 11:04


But in this case you don`t have a physical collection, so this is the reason why a CD has a future. Also we all know how is with files and downloads, things can get lost very quickly.
Perhaps.
Everybody is different. I know there are people who have no physical music and just stream. It would take a cataclysmic event to stop streaming services. In which case, the absence of music is the least of your concerns. Finding food would be more pressing.

Also, some people are not as posessiveley materialistic. They can live without XYZ album if it's not available for streaming.
Vinylfreak86 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 11:04

Do you think so? We still drive cars with an internal combustion engine like it was invented more than 100 years ago, and also all electricity experiments are saying to us that this will still go on in the future. And we are producing electricity in thermal power plants using coal. #-o And in nuclear reactors producing toxic radioactive waste and to take risks that new Tschernobyl could happen.
Since you asked, yes I do think so, which is why I wrote it. The world did not begin 100 years ago. Civilization is thousands of years old. You're thinking very recently.
I am thinking in longer terms.

I am only engaging the discussion. Neither of us can claim right knowledge about the future.
But, for example, the vast majority of people do not listen to 78 RPM shellac records.
Why?
- poor sound quality
- mono
- not many people like the style of music.
- most discs are worn out.
- cannot buy new discs
- short playing time per side.

That technology is redundant.

Another one - mini disc. This 1990's technology is now gone.
Why?
ATRAC sounds worse than 320 MP3
Has been superseded by CDR, MP3 320 and equivalent high quality lossy formats, and FLAC / WAV and streaming.

Beta. Gone
VHS. Gone
Compact cassette. Nearly gone.
Do you think in 50 years anyone will listen to compact cassette?

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by cafe latte » 07 Dec 2019 10:17

Erin1 wrote:
07 Dec 2019 10:11
Vinylfreak86 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 11:04


But in this case you don`t have a physical collection, so this is the reason why a CD has a future. Also we all know how is with files and downloads, things can get lost very quickly.
Perhaps.
Everybody is different. I know there are people who have no physical music and just stream. It would take a cataclysmic event to stop streaming services. In which case, the absence of music is the least of your concerns. Finding food would be more pressing.

Also, some people are not as posessiveley materialistic. They can live without XYZ album if it's not available for streaming.
Vinylfreak86 wrote:
06 Dec 2019 11:04

Do you think so? We still drive cars with an internal combustion engine like it was invented more than 100 years ago, and also all electricity experiments are saying to us that this will still go on in the future. And we are producing electricity in thermal power plants using coal. #-o And in nuclear reactors producing toxic radioactive waste and to take risks that new Tschernobyl could happen.
Since you asked, yes I do think so, which is why I wrote it. The world did not begin 100 years ago. Civilization is thousands of years old. You're thinking very recently.
I am thinking in longer terms.

I am only engaging the discussion. Neither of us can claim right knowledge about the future.
But, for example, the vast majority of people do not listen to 78 RPM shellac records.
Why?
- poor sound quality
- mono
- not many people like the style of music.
- most discs are worn out.
- cannot buy new discs
- short playing time per side.

That technology is redundant.

Another one - mini disc. This 1990's technology is now gone.
Why?
ATRAC sounds worse than 320 MP3
Has been superseded by CDR, MP3 320 and equivalent high quality lossy formats, and FLAC / WAV and streaming.

Beta. Gone
VHS. Gone
Compact cassette. Nearly gone.
Do you think in 50 years anyone will listen to compact cassette?
I own quite a bit of digital as well as vinyl. I admit I only listen to the vinyl.. On this topic after a earth wipe out event what would remain?
Answer records or some anyway depending on the event that killed us.
Chris

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Re: digital vs. vinyl comparison

Post by vinyl master » 07 Dec 2019 10:29

Well, to add some fuel to this...What was once retro is "in", including vinyl records and cassettes...

https://gearpatrol.com/2019/07/17/best-retro-tech/
https://mediag.com/blog/the-comeback-ki ... ity-again/
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/12/tech/vin ... index.html
https://www.pcr-online.biz/2019/05/30/c ... 12-months/
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... ket-newtab

And even as Michael Fremer says...Vinyl keeps getting better and better and better...



And yes, I have two or three large boxes of old VHS tapes that I don't plan on getting rid of any time soon, as I recorded some really good stuff on them...

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