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Marantz TT-15S1: Comments

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Marantz TT-15S1: Comments

Postby cfraser » 05 Dec 2008 19:21

I've had this table for a couple weeks now. So these are some random comments, if you want to know a detail, ask.

First off, I have to say this table/cartridge combo is a relative bargain, perhaps especially so for those in Canada. You get a Clearaudio-built all-acrylic table (white), the CA Satisfy arm ("ebony" version), and the CA Virtuoso cartridge (ebony wood version). With the Marantz name on the plinth. I guess Marantz commissioned the table because it's not exactly like anything CA has their own name on, seems to be roughly a significantly tarted-up Emotion.

The combo comes really well packed. It's all in pieces and you have to assemble it, not at all difficult but takes a while including the cart setup depending how picky you are. Finish of everything is excellent. Comes with some bearing lube, and two belts (one spare) with gloves to use when putting them on, and a screwdriver for the cart and some Allen keys for the tonearm.

Platter is 28mm thick with a recess for the LP label. It is so finely made and balanced you can't even tell it's spinning. Take the clear silicone belt off and give it a push and it'll spin for many minutes (I don't know how long, got tired of waiting for it to stop...), ceramic bearing. They don't say to do it from new, but I put 4 drops of lube in the bearing, I couldn't see much in there.

Arm is mostly aluminum, black-colored wand, tungsten and ruby (IIRC...may be sapphire though) bearings, magnetic anti-skate. VTA easily adjustable, but no scale for it. VTF is by rotatable counterweight. I found the required anti-skate difficult to determine...the HFNRR record seemed to show I didn't need any (??) at 2.25g VTF, so I backed the AS knob all the way out and just left it there, to be looked at again later (those magnets are pretty darn powerful). Arm cable capacitance is 110pF, in the ballpark of a stock RB300. Cable length is at least 1m, I didn't measure, continuous to the cartridge connectors. Decent enough gold-plated connectors, very tight-fitting. There is a ground wire molded into this cable assembly, for connection to preamp ground terminal, and there's also a separate ground wire that comes from the TT bearing assembly.

They don't give you a protractor, but presume you are installing the included cart, and if you follow their directions it turns out pretty well re VTA and alignment without additional "tools". The arm is mounted the same distance from the spindle as a typical Rega (222mm), so you can use a protractor for that for finer tuning. Azimuth is adjustable, and though the manual doesn't mention this, anybody who needs it and looks for it will find it.

Cueing lever is fairly long. Cart drops rather quickly (but safely) considering how high up it sits at rest.

Included info for the Virtuoso is possibly inaccurate (older data sheet??), or at least doesn't match other Virtuoso info I've seen. Since I don't know for sure, I stayed closer to the more common info re recommended VTF (2.25g +/- 0.25g) and recommended loading of 47k and 100pF, and I have to say this works very nicely, but it's all I've tried. The cart weighs 6g. Resonates somewhere between 9 and 11Hz, so call it ~10Hz. Stock VTA is somewhat tail down with a regular thickness LP, and was still slightly tail down with thicker ones.

The motor is a German-made AC synchronous. It is mounted in a heavyish cylinder which has some minor electronics inside, plus the power switch and the attached 3-conductor line cord. This motor assembly sits on your shelf and pokes through the plinth without touching it. Acrylic pulley for 33/45. This is the only area of this whole TT with which I have criticism. The motor is inherently a bit noisy. Not noise you can hear through the amplification, but I can easily hear it from not far away. I opened the can and took the motor out, and it's the motor, not a resonance from the assembly "can", the bearings I guess. It is a fairly low-torque motor, and other "similar" I have in a P3 and TD160 are deadly silent. I don't know if this means anything, certainly doesn't matter from a reproduction POV best I can tell since the output was exceptionally quiet, but it was unexpected in a TT that otherwise seems to have great attention to little details. Maybe it'll quieten up with more use...perhaps I'll investigate further but best to leave well enough alone during the warranty period since it's obviously not "broken", just me being picky.

The motor can has non-slip feet on it, but since you want to position it in the center of the plinth cutout, and have to handle it to work the power switch, it will probably tend to move a bit. I cut out a circle of thin cork shelf liner and fit it inside the "ring" of non-slip button feet, yet is the same height as them. This added a much larger area of non-slippiness to the can and it does stay in position very well now. The belt rides right near the bottom of the platter at 33, so you have a fair bit of leeway to raise the can if you wanted to put something else thicker/better on the bottom, though IMO it looks better the less the motor is exposed.

Using a stopwatch and taking numerous measurements, platter seems to spin 0.1% fast at 33.33rpm when not playing a record. With a strobe disc it is pretty hard to notice any movement, but there's a very tiny bit if you watch for a while.

There is quite a lot of spindle length available, much more than I'm used to. A mat of some type of compressed felt (I think) is included, it's not soft and floppy like the Rega felt one, for instance. I didn't use it. There is also a Souther Clever Clamp included. Now this works pretty well, but it sells for $33 and it's just a little piece of plastic...yup, they can see audiophiles coming from miles away, dollar bills falling from their pockets as they walk... Anyway, you pretty much need a clamp due to the smooth and slippery acrylic platter, even if using a mat I'd guess, besides for the reasons you got the acrylic platter in the first place. The Clever Clamp is pretty clever actually, I'll give them that, and I kinda like that it's clear so I can still read the label. It'll do for now, though I don't know how tight it'll stay over time, and it sure doesn't match the build of the rest of the TT.

The TT sits on three fairly large polished aluminum footers, adjustable for levelling. I was surprised by how good the isolation was just sitting on a shelf. Compared to my P3, it was 1 or 2 orders of magnitude better isolated, both on the same "raw" shelf (I have my own test LOL). Sufficiently good that I didn't have to do anything else if I didn't want to...but I did, and in my situation it required little effort and surpassed the best results I ever got isolating the P3 with a lot of effort. YMMV

How does it sound? I don't usually comment about stuff like that re gear, as everybody has their own taste, and there's way too much airy-fairy talk and hyperbole used. But I honestly mean this, and it totally surprised me: I have not been so impressed by the sound of any piece of audio gear I've ever bought. And this is at the low end price-wise. It was not a subtle "you have to listen carefully" improvement. I hear people say "such-and-such draws me in and I can't leave"...yup, it finally happened to me! So I'll just say it's "wonderful". I don't know if it's the table, the arm, the cartridge (supposedly an excellent MM) or all, but the combo truly works well. A lot has to be the cart though. The cart is changing daily, but it even started out great. I would never have spent this "much" on a cart by itself (it lists for ~$1k in Canada) and now I'm kicking myself for years of deprivation. It tracks like a champ, and appears very immune to surface noise too, really is as good as people say.
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Postby JaS » 06 Dec 2008 21:15

Sounds like a nice piece of kit :) I haven't managed to hear any of the Clearaudio (or related) gear so it's good to hear an owners perspective on one.

Regards,
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Postby cfraser » 06 Dec 2008 22:06

It is, sound-wise, compared to what I'm used to. I never thought my other TTs sounded bad at all, but now I've been "educated"! If only I had had the opportunity to hear more phono systems in the last couple decades... Even the place I got the TT doesn't set TTs up for demoing anymore (used to be a Linn dealer). Places can obviously move more gear by concentrating on home theatre stuff.

Clearaudio (and especially Rega) are very expensive here. Marantz has kept the price "low", presumably by volume and a more reasonable distribution system. As an example, if you were to buy just the same arm and cart from CA, they list for over $2500 here. The whole Marantz kit lists for $1600.

I still can't figure out how to set the anti-skate, was playing with it again. I've never had one without a scale to guide you. The HFNRR record is no help because it passes all the tests (except the torture track which I skip) with no AS at all. And I don't hear any problem so far. It just doesn't seem this should be right...if anybody can inform me better about running without AS...thanks.
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Postby BeEvil » 08 Dec 2008 17:37

Hi,

I've set up a couple of these TT's. The AS is magnetic. I believe you set it at half way mark and just forget it. Read the manual it tells you specifically how to do it. It's a very simple and nice TT. Hope this helps.

Andrew
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Postby cfraser » 08 Dec 2008 18:30

Well, I did do it as the manual says at first. Then tried adjusting it +/- with the test record...it didn't seem to make any difference in the sound though I could see the AS does obviously "work".

Edit: Just checked, and it looks like I did put it back to half way at some point, since all the other manual setup instructions seemed "good", even though it seems just fine with no AS.
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Postby BeEvil » 09 Dec 2008 14:44

As long as the the music is centered and not off to one side or the other, then you are off to the races.

Enjoy, that is a very musical TT.

Andrew
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Re: Marantz TT-15S1: Comments

Postby WmAx » 27 Dec 2008 20:13

cfraser wrote:First off, I have to say this table/cartridge combo is a relative bargain, perhaps especially so for those in Canada. You get a Clearaudio-built all-acrylic table (white), the CA Satisfy arm ("ebony" version),


It's not the Ebony version. The Ebony Satisfy has an arm tube made from ebony wood. The unit on the Marantz is the Satisfy Aluminum with the tube anodized black instead of the usual silver anodize used on the standard version of the arm.

Saying that, I find the quality of this arm astounding on this price range table kit. The arm is fairly priced IMO at $1200 from normal Clear Audio channels.
They don't say to do it from new, but I put 4 drops of lube in the bearing, I couldn't see much in there.


Eh, I went ahead and dumped enough in for the bearing to work in a constant oil bath. The design of the bearing well facilitates this, so why not?



The motor is inherently a bit noisy. Not noise you can hear through the amplification, but I can easily hear it from not far away.


In a totally quiet environment, I can barely hear the motor from about 1' away; specifically a 60Hz cycle sound. Is this what you mean? If you mean you can hear it from like 4 or 5' away, you perhaps should exchange the motor.

Using a stopwatch and taking numerous measurements, platter seems to spin 0.1% fast at 33.33rpm when not playing a record. With a strobe disc it is pretty hard to notice any movement, but there's a very tiny bit if you watch for a while.


I used The Ultimate Analog Test LP and a 30 second recording of it, analyzed in Adobe Audition, and sampled many points in that recording to find maximum speed deviation. The average was about 0.07 percent error, with a maximum shift of 0.14 percent; these are based on the 3150Hz test signal. The table is specced as 0.2% speed accuracy and 0.07% RMS Wow & Flutter by standard methods.


How does it sound? I don't usually comment about stuff like that re gear, as everybody has their own taste, and there's way too much airy-fairy talk and hyperbole used. But I honestly mean this, and it totally surprised me: I have not been so impressed by the sound of any piece of audio gear I've ever bought.


The thing that surprised me was the lack of coloration(s). It seemed like it was just a very neutral transcription device. That is exactly what I prefer. I did eventually change out to a Denon DL-110 cartridge. The Denon was a very flat measured response, and a slight treble attenuation curve. Very low harmonic distortion, sampled/measured at several points from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. Inner groove distortion is not an issue. Table/arm/cart combo noisefloor dead silent on good vinyl. Another bonus.

-Chris
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GREAT TT!

Postby mike_rawn » 29 Dec 2008 05:24

I was talking with the Canadian Clearaudio distributir, and they said the Marantz didn't have the CEramic Magnetic Bearing (CMB). That being said, is there any rig that can touch this one for value in its class?

Mike
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Postby cfraser » 29 Dec 2008 06:52

Note I didn't say CMB, just ceramic (ball) bearing. You really didn't expect CMB for a list of $1600 did you? :) There's nothing else in Canada that comes close to this class level for this price. For instance, if I didn't already mention it, the P3/Beta combo I had currently lists for only $10 less...I leave it up to you which you think is a better value. :) But you better like acrylic if you go for one of these. I have recently added a TTWeights SuperClamp Heavy to the mix. Seems a decent match, but it's all new to me and the cart isn't even broken in yet (probably) so I haven't tried to adjust much. Even then, I am very impressed with the whole thing, it is quite pleasant to use and I think it sounds rather good. Definitely worth checking out if you're in the market around the $1450 range, but may be tough to get an audition...it was hard enough for me to even find people who knew about the Marantz TT at the Marantz dealers. Dealers around here usually don't display stuff unless they might sell a lot of them, and though TTs in general are quite popular these days, the price is definitely out of the range of what most are looking for.

Re the arm: I thought "ebony" was just because of its color, and is in fact why I put it in "" presuming people would know that that meant "not really". Bear in mind I'm talking Canadian prices, and one CA dealer does call the "black colored" one Ebony LOL at the price I mentioned. I never saw a real ebony wood one there, but was wondering about that... Also, the Ebony arm has a cable specced at 260pF/m, where the black Satisfy measures more like 110pF/m.

As far as the cart, I would really like to just once get some official/proper/CORRECT specs for a Clearaudio MM cart, especially loading ones. I am pretty sure the loading info in the included cart brochure is not correct for the Virtuoso (doesn't match other CA published info), and is more like "adjusted" to make it sound like it matches a typical MM pre input. The input capacitance loading makes a huge diff, I already played with it for a Beta, same family. That cart family will IME sound awfully bright if you follow what's in the current brochure and have a typical 100-220pF load cap (along with the 110pF cable + 50-100pF inherent input cap)...

Oh yeah, the motor noise. I can hear it from up to maybe a foot away at most, certainly not 4-5', I'm talking inches. I only mentioned it because my 35+y.o. TD160 motor and newish P3 motors are completely silent. It is not a practical matter, just an observation.

As for the motor speed, my crude measurements showed 0.13% fast actually (I rounded it above), and that was when brand new and not while playing, haven't checked it since.

Edit: I would really appreciate it if somebody could relate some capacitive loading experience with the Virtuoso. I have never been able to find out good info on that for any of the Aurum Beta versions and now for the Virtuoso. I know it is quite common for cart manufacturers to adjust loading info to "common" values, and users have shown that that info is not optimum and often not even very close. It may help sell, but doesn't help us users who care and are willing to adjust our phono inputs. Instead of those who aren't willing and end up ditching a cart because it sounds lousy (usually too bright for CA ones) with the specced "incorrect" loading. It will be a while before my cart is broken in, and thus until I investigate proper loading for it, but I wouldn't mind changing the pre input now if somebody has better practical info. I have my Virtuoso set up on the basis that the previous CA spec of 100pF total is much closer to reality than the included spec, and that sure was borne out with the Beta. The Beta is not exactly the same obviously, but it is very close in general construction. Going back and forth between the P3/Beta and Marantz/Virtuoso showed a very similar sound signature. The Virtuoso did sound smoother and imaged better and was more tolerant of less pristine vinyl, and where it stood out was in channel separation...much more than I'm used to. So they're not exactly the same cart by any means (and some of the sonic differences would be due to the TTs), but the cart "engines" seem a similar build electrically, and I am working on the presumption they are best with similar loading until I get around to trying otherwise...
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Re: Marantz TT-15S1: Comments

Postby PCMHiFi » 06 Apr 2012 00:01

Hi there,

I just purchased one of these little gems. With the following exception, it is set up as directed by the manual, with the original cartridge, and for the scenario where the included mat is not used. The exception is where the manual says to place the counterweight under the cueing mechanism to set the arm height. I did this at first. But with the stylus set down on an unwarped record, and the tracking force set to 2.20g, the cartridge end of the arm was noticeably higher than the suspension/counterweight end of the arm. Having read consistently that when the stylus is set down, the arm should be perfectly parallel to the platter, I raised the suspension/counterweight end of the arm to accomplish this. Wondering how you set yours up in this regard? Thanks - Pete
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Re: Marantz TT-15S1: Comments

Postby digiman » 11 Apr 2012 22:12

Som snapshots of my TT-15S1 in my second system. Very happy with it.
As some of you have pointed out it is fantastic VFM considering what a equivalent would cost.
I have also ordred a Clearaudio Maestro Wood pickup for it. I was offered the Maestro for a price i could not resist :D

Some snapshots.

Image

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Image
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