Ariston Q Deck w/Sumiko Pearl vs. Pro-ject Debut 3

[Joefarrell]

I have had Debut 3 for about three years now and got it based on reviews such as Stereophile. It is more than adequate but like many, I have found the Ortofon OM5E cartridge to be functional but thin. I really do not know if it is even worth going the upgrade root with cartrridge, stylus nd/or speed box. On the contrary, I recently had a Sumiko Pearl put on an Ariston Q Deck (which was my second deck). Now it has graduated above the Debut 3 at least to my ears (or maybe it's just puppy love). I am finding it be more "deep" and less fatiguing. I am really considering the Ariston and Pearl combo a superior listen at this point. I know it's in the end all about my ears but do others have thoughts on this. For my other listening area, rather than upgrading the Debut 3 I am considering selling it locally if possible and just trying to find a Technics SL 1300, 1700, etc. and putting something such as a Shure M9xe on that. Thoughts? Opinions? I am new to site but highly appreciative of the posts and feedback!

[PMBroadhurst]

When I saw Debut 3 -vs- Icon, I thought Oooh!, that is a close call. I think your answer lay in the cartridge. There are many on here who will suggest replacing the stylus on the OM5E. It would not do it for me. I have never liked ANY of the OM range, or any of it's predecessors. I like the Ortofon MCs, but for me the 2M range was a turning point for Ortofon. They are all stunning for the money. Other than that I would probably go for the Shure you mention or the Audio Technica AT440 (latest version).

From left field, you could try an Audio Technica AT110E. Much cheaper than any of the above but punches way above it's weight. Over the years it has won award after award. The tip here is to put a drop of super glue carefully to hold the stylus in place and stop it resonating, remove the stylus guard, and make sure it is as close to perfectly aligned as possible. You will get fantastic results for a fairly low cost.

[avole]

I'm not surprised that you're finding the Ariston better than the Pro-ject, because it was always a good standard deck whereas the Pro-ject is budget.

I wouldn't put any more money into the Pro-ject, so selling it is a good option. Both the decks you mention are good, in fact I have both, but do check that the speed is consistent before you buy, else you're into some fiddly cleaning of the speed pots. Both better than the Pro-ject by some way, but with a different feel to the sound than the Ariston.

Personally I like the Grado cartridges. Many of the ATs are a bit too bright for my taste. Haven't heard the Shure but would imagine it's not a mile away in sound from the Grados.

[Joefarrell]

Last night I put on Joe Farrell Quartet LP (CTI, 1970 record that I often use as a reference) - wow. It just hit me (like a James Brown punch) before I could even sit down. The sound of the Q Deck/Sumiko Pearl was so much more deeper and rounded than that of the Debut 3/Om5e - deeper bass, cymbals, wider sound field for sax and flute, more "presence", etc. The skinny dude had gone on steroids so to speak.

My current thinking (at least for today - the typically suggested upgrades to Debut 3 - speed box, acrylic platter, OM2 Blue - could run 400 or 500 bucks. A mint used Technics SL 1200 -1700 could likely be had for less - and with room for a cartridge upgrade at that. Does anybody out there think that the upgrades to the Debut make for a just "blow you away" TT and sound. If so, maybe I could sell a guitar - who knows. I am learning towards a local sale of the Debut 3 but open to the "upgrade it" scenario. In those threads, some swear by the upgrades. Thoughts? Thanks for the previous comments.

[scud-eater]

As an ex Debut III owner I found the old Shure M75ED a good cart to beef up the sound. I used to use one with an aftermarket Hyperelliptical stylus on my Pro-ject instead of an AT440mla.

On the other hand, Debut III prices are pretty inflated at the moment and so are the upgrades such as the Speedbox or the 440 cart. What that does mean though is that you can get a decent price for it - I pretty much got the money back for mine that I'd spent 3/4 years earlier and put it towards a better second hand deck and IIRC, sold the speedbox for more than I paid new.

[cafe latte]

I would sell the Debut and move on. The upgrades are valid, but it is still a debut. I sold my Project rpm 6.1sb for the sl1200 and would NEVER go back. Should also consider systemdek used on the belt side of things used.
The m97xe is a nice cart best with 62k loading, but decide were you are going with the TT's first as IMO if you go the Technics there are a there are a list of carts that are known to work very well. Also what ever you buy used may come with a good cart... Just a thought

[raphaelmabo]

I know this is an old thread by now, but I do have the Sumiko Pearl and wanted to give some comments on it. It is clearly a better cartridge than the OM5. In my opinion it is even better than the OM20, which I used to own (now the OM20 is no longer made, Ortofon has replaced it with the 2M Blue). The Sumiko Pearl has a fatter, richer and more full bodied sound, and it tracks better on worn out records and is more lively and musical. I found the OM20 to be relaxed and smooth on the ear with a large-than-life soundstage and excellent imagery - and while the Sumiko doesn't give the same expanded and room filling soundstage, the overall sound of the Sumiko is to me more pleasing. I use mine at 2g force, in my system this works best.

The Shure M97ex discussed here is more warm and laid back than the Sumiko. Shure isn't for me but can be a nice cartridge for others. AT-440 is lively, upfront and a bit on the bright side.

Ariston Q was a nice turntable in it's days.

[kalypso]

the OM20 is no longer made

The OM 10-40 have got a modified cartridge body and are now offered as the super OM 10, 20, 30 and 40. The OM10 is available as standard and super OM 10. The price difference is € 30,00. The 2M series is different.

The styli of the super OM-series fit on the OM5 and OM10 body, so those can still easily be upgraded.

regards, kalypso

[satanfriendly]

The main point here is that the 'Q-Deck' is a very fine budget deck to start with and one which is sadly overlooked. I should imagine a cartridge down the road of a Sumiko Pearl would be a very good match to the arm and likewise a 2M Red would be equally as well matched. The Red does take a slagging in some quarters, but I find it one competent performer in the right arm.

[raphaelmabo]

While it is true that many still offers the OM Super versions, they are no longer made as complete cartridges. Those still offered brand new is simply from unsold stock. The only OM cartridges still in production is the 3, 5 and 10. (they're still popular among turntable makers for entry level decks). The OM Super cartridges are no longer featured on the Ortofon homepage (www.ortofon.com). However, the stylus is still available and in production so yes you can buy an OM 5 or 10 and upgrade it with an OM 20 stylus if you wish. And yes, the 2M's are quite different in sound to the OM, more upbeat and clear and not as laid-back.

And yes, the Ariston Q is fine and it still pops up from time to time on flee markets or 2nd hand hi-fi shops or even eBay. It's a very good design and still is worth looking for as an alternative to today's new entry level budget offerings.

[adragon]

Good morning

As I' m using for 4 months the Q Deck's "killing" tonearm on my Thorens TF 160 super, I have to underline the sound quality you can take using this tonearm!

This Jelco product, if you feel strong enough to rewire it, is a tonearm with excellent sound, when it is used with high quality cartridges!
I have an Ortofon HMC 30 moving coil cartridge, with pure silver internal cabling and VDH 502 to transfer the signal to the phono stage and I hear excellent sound on my system (you can read in details what is my system in the subject about HMC 30...)

I recommend to use a very good cartridge with this tonearm and you will be very happy with your sound!

Antonios Dragonas

[dholmes843@fsmail.net]

I just bought a vgc Q Deck off Gumtree with a Goldring Elektro cart. This was to (I hoped) upgrade my old Dual CS505. I replaced the Goldring for an Audio Technica AT95e simply because it was new and therefore more confident of stylus condition.

I have to say it plays perfectly and is in my humble view a good upgrade without a big outlay - new belt on way just to be sure. Overall it just sounds a little more articulate and confident than the CS505 and to produce a better sound would, I think,require a significantly higher investment.

[jives11]

Another vote for the Qdeck. I have one with an OM20 and it sounds great and is very easy to use. Mine had some feet collapse, where the felt rings had slipped and the rubber cups were a bit deformed. I removed and discarded the black felt rings and washed the rubber cups in warm water , then a night in a sandwich bag with a squirt of platanclene. Feet were like new after this. black and bouncy and aligned with the plastic mounts that they go in. You need to replace the felt rings but my local hardware shop had similar diameter self adhesives. They had no central hole so i punched one out of each felt pad with a hammer , a tree stump and an old 75ohm coax aerial plug as a stamper.