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TNTTNT
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 489
Location: Kent
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 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject: Turning a Duckling into a Swan |
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Hi,
I was looking at Technics today and something occurred to me. If you took a SL1200 and removed the rubber plinth, Armboard, Arm, Internal PSU, and built a wood plinth - wouldn't you be left with a SP10?
The reason I make this comment is I thought that if each of the above was done or modded, then what would stop the sound quality getting close or the same.
If you changed the arm, built your own PSU (or bought off the shelf), built a new Plinth to sit the whole deck, and even put another arm on the left of wooden plinth, what would be dramtically different.
I am sure you have seen this, but this guy blew even my thought away for effort. He rippped apart a 1200 and used the bits.
The post is here
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/.....tic&r=
I suppose what I am asking is isn't a SP10 the DD motor, bearing and platter from a 1200, or similar? So could you take a 1200 and step backward to get a SP10 sounding deck?
If I have asked something stupid, please be kind. |
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flavio81
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2280
Location: Lima
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Winner!! |
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Beltway
vinyl addict
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 512
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't know anything about Technics but thanks for posting the pix.
I enjoy seeing projects like that. That isn't one I would copy, but I appreciate the quality of the workmanship and the imagination that went into it. |
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TNTTNT
senior member
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 489
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't know where to begin with such a build. The thing I could do is build a plinth to sit the 1200 in, and put an arm to the left side of the deck. Buy or build a PSU and bypass regulator. This kind of sounds getting SP10 ish, but I am asking rather then telling here - I don't know the answer.
I bet Saturnfriendly could do the replinthing, judging from his Ariston project.
The pics look awesome to me. I wish he chose a highly polished dark wood though. |
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satanfriendly
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 2656
Location: Liverpool UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Yes I am friends with Saturn. Goes with my other two friends stain and satin according to another member.
Never been a great admirer of the 1200 decks, but that is nice I have to say. I reckon re-plinthing a DD is not as easy as it probably looks. Full marks to the guy for creating something worthy of praise. I personally love the choice of wood. Any darker and it would loose it's nice clean lines a bit.
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TNTTNT
senior member
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 489
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I liked the guy who did the project. He seemed to have a cheeky sense of humour. They say never a truer thing said in jest - He called this his Technics SP-9.5
I was looking at Technics trying to work out what made each model sound as it does, and found this project. Wasn't expecting it and it made me think twice as fast.
| satanfriendly wrote: | | Yes I am friends with Saturn. |
Better friends with Saturn than Uranus. |
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alfonso
senior member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 136
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi,great project man! Yes,the original plinth (especially the rubber base) hold the 1200 down.Following this path you'll have a really great sounding deck.
Anyway,the motor inside the sl1200 is the same you can find inside the sp25. The sp10 mk2 had a 48 pole motor and 6kg/cm of torque against the 12 pole 1,5kg/cm of torque of the motor of the 1200.
But i think you can get quite close to the peformance of the sp10 with your project.There are people on other forums who state that they have reached the same level of sound quality of an sp10 with their super modded technics sl1200 without changing the original plinth and rubber base...surely changing the whole plinth will bring a huge improvement even over that modded 1200s(i'd like to post the link but i think it's forbidden)
anyway good luck and please keep us informed! |
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TNTTNT
senior member
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 489
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| alfonso wrote: | | Hi,great project man! Yes,the original plinth (especially the rubber base) hold the 1200 down.Following this path you'll have a really great sounding deck. |
Hi Mate, Glad you liked the idea. From people's comment that I have read, i got the impression that the rubber plinth was quite good at isolating the deck and dissipating vibrations. For that reason, I wondered if it was easier and better to build a plinth around the existing case, and stuff the voids full of loft insulation wool. Also, you could make it larger on the left side of the deck and fit another arm.
With the method, would it not be better isolated than a plinthed SP10, due to 2 layers of isolation (rubber + wooden plinth).
You could add multiple arms and keep the stock one, a Jelco or SME perhaps.
I drew a really basic illustration below.
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TNTTNT
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 489
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually the above is to illustrate a possible rough idea. It may even be better to remove rubber and set in plinth that way. |
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satanfriendly
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 2656
Location: Liverpool UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'd simply do what the other chap did and re-build the whole plinth. It will take time, but it will be worth it. Planning.
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scho2684
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 200
Location: the Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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This is really great and shows the possibilities and how flexible you can be with a "cheap" SL-1200. I'm thinking about a project as well, but it's all in my head, and I need to get some(one with) material knowledge, or at least get some information regarding that subject.
Rebuilding Technics turntables is not new, see next pictures from 1979:
Now that looks like a great subchassis to me!
Finished:
Read the complete document here:
http://www.saturn-sound.com/hi.....ection.htm
Marco
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alfonso
senior member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 136
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| TNTTNT wrote: | | alfonso wrote: | | Hi,great project man! Yes,the original plinth (especially the rubber base) hold the 1200 down.Following this path you'll have a really great sounding deck. |
Hi Mate, Glad you liked the idea. From people's comment that I have read, i got the impression that the rubber plinth was quite good at isolating the deck and dissipating vibrations. For that reason, I wondered if it was easier and better to build a plinth around the existing case, and stuff the voids full of loft insulation wool. Also, you could make it larger on the left side of the deck and fit another arm.
With the method, would it not be better isolated than a plinthed SP10, due to 2 layers of isolation (rubber + wooden plinth).
You could add multiple arms and keep the stock one, a Jelco or SME perhaps.
I drew a really basic illustration below.
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Hi,well i think your idea is very good (reminds me the plinth of a thorens 126) and this design could even be good for fitting a 12" tonearm on the sl1200.
But as i stated previously,the rubber base should go.
Yes,this thing isolates the deck from vibrations,but makes the deck sound a little dead (i'd like to point out that the sl1200 has always been one of my favorite turntables,i'm saying this things cause it's important to be objective,especially when being objective helps to maximaze the deck performance).
So i'd suggest to keep only the alluminium top(the silver or black one),take away only the rubber base and the pocan inside and fit the "naked" turntable in a plinth like the one you described.
I don't know how hard could be fitting the naked turntable in a wood plinth,but i always wanted to try...but i really can't do a plinth myself 
anyway should be a lot easier than the project we can see in the photos posted.
Good luck for this project and please,keep us informed!!! |
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flavio81
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2280
Location: Lima
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| TNTTNT wrote: | | Better friends with Saturn than Uranus. |
HAHAHAHAHA!! |
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scho2684
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Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 200
Location: the Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| alfonso wrote: | | So i'd suggest to keep only the alluminium top(the silver or black one),take away only the rubber base and the pocan inside and fit the "naked" turntable in a plinth like the one you described. |
That would be a bit difficult I think, because you really have to "connect" the plinth to the aluminium, I don't think dropping the complete top part of the table into a wooden base would not work sonicly. Wooden base for the complete deck (including the rubber bottom) I've seen before, just can't recall where...
Marco
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caligari
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Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 45
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Turning a Duckling into a Swan |
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| TNTTNT wrote: | | isn't a SP10 the DD motor, bearing and platter from a 1200, or similar? So could you take a 1200 and step backward to get a SP10 sounding deck? |
The motor in the SL-1200mk2 is NOT the same as the one in SP-10mk2. Not even close. Such project is a good idea, provided you have the time and energy. However, it would be much less belabored if you simply use an SP-25 because it uses the same motor and electronics but the platter is heavier, so the math suggests a better machine.
Another candidate would be the SL-1600/1700/1800mk2 series, same motor/electronics/platter except these are suspended designs but they are generally cheaper than SL-1200mk2. The SL-1800mk2 is a manual table so works exactly like the SL-1200mk2 which makes a good choice for butchering.
If people are willing to stay away from the SL-1200mk2 and want to go a range higher than that, then you can use the SL-1300/1400/1500mk2 series. All three are same turntable except each has different auto functions -the SL-1500mk2 is a manual model which, again, makes is a good choice. What I like about this series is that the motor and electronics are similar to the SP-15 and the platter is dynamically balanced with drilled holes like the SP-10. If you can find an SL-150mk2, it's even better. It's a manual table with no tonearm and the bottom is made of wood and has no suspension except the four feet. It's almost like an SL-1200mk2 modified for you. The weakness of these SL1300/1400/1500mk2 tables is that they have a mediocre tonearm which makes them even better for upgrade in such gutting project. Another good thing about them is the motor is detachable from the circuit board; it's independent from the electronics so one can mount the motor directly to a solid plinth without worrying about situating the electronics and can extend the cables as umbilical cords to the stock chassis.
I have an SP-15 and SP-25 that I can swap around on the same wood plinth and it sounds wonderful. The wood or organic material definitely warms up or humanize the sound a lot from that Technics clinical house sound. I think Technics over-use composite material in the decks. In this set up the SP-15 sounds to my ears more musical than the SP-10 in stock obsidian plinths. The SP-10 still reign supreme in the bass department due to its tremendous torque. But my own personal preference is to have a lusher midrange and more refined top end. Of course one can modify the SP10 in the same manner and probably improve it even further.
The point is that there are many Technics options out there besides the ubiquitous SL-1200mk2. Find one at a good price and experiment!
Have fun! |
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