GRADO SIG. TLZ LOADING HELP????

[rayr0683]

Hello All,
I am in a bit of a mixup over ar Audiogon, with Raul, who is the believer that MM/MI cartridges are superior to mC cartridges, and he uses 100K as his load value for all MM/MI cartridges.

what would you say is the best load option for the Grado Signature TLZ cartridge, going into the MM input of a preamp?? and does the Capacitance matter much at all, if so, what value would that be? I am using an Audio Research SP9 preamp, the default would be 47K, but I want Optimum Loading Values for Grado Cartridges, maybe no so much the Wood bodied, or low Output Types.

thanks, Ray
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THERE IS NO SACRIFICE TOO GREAT FOR A CHANCE AT IMMORTALITY....HUMPHREY BOGART

[boyerd001]

The capacitance loading shouldn't matter with the Grado line of cartridges since their internal inductance is so low (less than 50mH). The resistive loading is IMPORTANT and will depend on your system and your ears. Raul's recommendations are way too general to be taken as gospel. I've got several Grados, and into a standard 47k Ohm MM phono input I've found that something in the 15k - 20k Ohm range sounds best for me.

Read through the "Loading Cartridges" thread in this forum for some ideas and also visit Jim Hagerman's site for some more info:

http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

Dale

[michaelwnz]

With the SP9 you can add capacitance but can't load it any higher than 47kOhm.
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cheers,

[Letitroll98]

I'm loading my Grado G1 with 15k ohms. That's the calculated optimal loading from the Hagerman site, and it sounds great with that loading. I can't imagine why anyone would suggest 100k ohm loading with Grado cartridges. Maybe if you had 5-10 pF of capacitance, hardly a real world value.

[neobop]

LOL Ray,
Raul loads EVERY MM/MI at 100K. I don't understand how he can listen like that,, but he says that 75K is the minimum.

In the cartridge loading thread, 15 to 22K was preferred by most Grado users. Actually, closer to 20K than 15K.

The Hagerman site does not take the impedance of the cartridge into account (if I remember correctly). Results differed on many carts, from the Spice program CarlosFM was using. I believe the Spice program gave results closer to users preferred settings. You really have to do this by ear, as these calculations sometimes are way off. The mechanical aspect of a cart is not taken into account.

Michaelwnz,
Why can't the SP9 be loaded greater than 47K? Doesn't changing the load resistor give you whatever value you want?
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BIRD LIVES

[silviajulieta]

Dear friends: This is wath I posted on Agon on the MM/MI loading set up subject:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-.....amp;4#1020

In my Grado Amber Joe Grado spec is to load this cartridge at 47K and I like it in this way but I found that at 100K ( and the difference is not " night and day " ) the Amber has the natural agresiveness of the music that can't show it at 47K.

The right cartridge load impedance in a specific audio system it is not only a complex task but the impedance value ( the result ) is valid only to that audio system and to your music sound reproduction priorities.

As I posted IMHO there are no absolute rules on the subject.

This you can read it on the Haggerman site ":

+++++" Obviously, real-life conditions are far more complex, but general trends and first order results can be realized. Effects of RIAA equalization have not been taken into account - perhaps altering the results a little. " ++++

I own to many cartridges to try in " absolute " terms the precise load impedance with each one ( some day I will do it. ) so what I do is to have a load impedance/capacitance value where almost all cartridges shows very very near its best, at least in my audio system and with my " ears ".

My advise to go 100K/100pf is only another values and nothing more. In my case are functioning really good but I can change it any time I think is the time to do it.
Can I be wrong?, certainly I can but is working for me!!

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

[rayr0683]

Well Raul,
You wanted links to people besides myself, that had other values, besides 100K to use for MM/MI Cartridges, including Grado's, and here are some of them. These are people that know far more than I do, about loading cartridges at optimum values, and were not all that keen on the 100K Loading value that you have chosen. Most people that responded here have been in the turntable/cartridge hobby far longer than me. Amd Im glad that they responded, and you got to see so first hand for yourself. And trust me, there is even more guys than those that responded to this thread, that feel the same way, about having much better load values than 100K, and not less than 75K. There are guys that have been bringing out the best in their favorite MM/MI cartridges for years, and 100K has not been anywhere near the value they chose. So, at least now you can see for yourself, and its not just me. Ray

[silviajulieta]

Dear Ray: I can't understand what you are trying to say in your answer.

Please read again very carefully what I already posted here and in the Agon link, I think is very clear my overall position about.

I'm not against what is working for you or for what is working to other people, I'm only telling what's working for me.
The other thing that I can't understand is that there are a lot of other people post in Agon where they posted that prefer 100K. So what?, that's what is working for them. Till today I don't know what is working for you.

Ray, the loading impedance on cartridges ( any ) subject is not who is right or who is wrong but to share all each one experiences about.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

[rayr0683]

Raul,
You seem a tad defensive. Yes, I know that you have a following of people that just follow you blindly at 100K. Several guys have emailed me in A'Gon, and stated that the link/thread has gone terribly bad. And its funny, as it turns out, the people who did email me regarding the issue, were from Vinyl Engine, or AudioCircle. Its the same thing as the AT20SS Stylus from LP Gear, that you told me was not an original, untill a few others spoke up against you about that.

As for me. I am using a Load of 32K right now, on my Grado Signature TLZ . I just tried this on my own, because I carried it over from my AT-440ML, which has a general concensus of 32K as a Load that best suits the AT440ML. I had removed the AT440ML and put on a HOMC, the Denon DL-110, and left the load as is, and it sounded very good. Right now Im trying that with my Grado TLZ as well, but with a different table, Im trying a Harmon Kardon T65c, which has a lighter arm than I had been using, but left the load at 32K on the Grado. I may play a bit more, closer to 20K, or the default 47K, but right now the 32K isnt sounding bad at all. And Im nowhere near 100K on any of these situations. Best to ya, enjoy the music.....Ray

[silviajulieta]

Dear Ray: I don't need to be " on defense " but your posts here an on Agon are " weird " for say the least and in the other side you don't tell the whole history.

This is what you posted on the load impedance subject:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-.....amp;4#1000

then I ask that you post the VE link to share with all these people my findings and ask them why they don't like the 100K on MM/MI cartridges and with which ones they already try that impedance value.
Till today you never give any answer, you ( posted ) go " around and around " with out any specific answer till by my surprise I find that you was the person that was asking here in VE.

In the other hand and on the AT20SS subject this is what I posted:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-.....&4#897

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-.....&4#909

as I posted LPgear does not " say " is original. Now we know that it is original.

Anyway, I still can't understand where is the " deep " on your posts in reference to me. I don't want to lose more time with you here on in Agon and I don't want that other people here lose their time too.

IMHO it is useless to continue.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

[Alec124c41]

One thing I've learned over the years is that you should tweak your components to suit, not only your system, but your listening space. What sounds good in one system or one space may need adjustment in another.
There isn't just one right answer.

Cheers,
Alec

[rayr0683]

Raul,
I asked about the Grado load recently because I didn't remember, till neobop reminded me, that 20K was a popular value among Grado lovers. I didn't remember it, but knew it was not 100K or anywhere near. And many months ago, yes, June it was, I asked about my Shure V15VMR.....and again, it was not 100K. The A'Gon thread seems to be a Stepford Wives thread, and thats what I have been getting emails about on the Gon. Saying I was the only one to speak up at all, instead of followingly blindly. After I found out for sure, from LPGear and AT that the AT20SS Stylus were NOS and Original, via my emails to them, I dont really care if you email me any longer or not, your credibility is nothing more than an opinion, which I dont really care for. I'll stick with 32K before I jump to 100K anyday.And there is alot to ne said for MC cartridges as well. They are definately not inferior. Those are my opinions, my loads, and my proof regarding authenticity of LPGear AT20SS Stylus, via my emailes to both LPGear and Audio Technica,USA. Ray You dont need to waste ant more time with me, I personally dont want your advice on this matter anymore and there are those that do use the cartridges that I own, Like Grado, Shure, Goldring, AT....etc.....and they have good values through constant experimentation, not a quick try, and moving on to the next one. Enjoy the Music...Ray

[silviajulieta]

Dear Alec: I can't be more in agree with you.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

[silviajulieta]

Ray: Who cares?

Raul.

[rayr0683]

Si Senior......Hasta Lavista.....Ray