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brightblack
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
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Location: Washington

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: tap water....just once Reply with quote report post

Hey All- I don't have record cleaning machine but I do have my own method I've been using for years that works very well for me....Dawn dish detergent, isopropyl alcohol (91%), & distilled water....rub gently with an extra soft sponge, let sit for a minute, then I get into the grooves with a delicate nylon brush & rinse thoroughly....I buy a lot of used records so this process is only meant to be carried out once per record for initial deep-cleaning....My question is: Would tap water be problem instead of distilled water... my faucet has really good pressure & could really clean out those grooves but I've read that tap water contains minerals that could be bad for my records...any thoughts?
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Alec124c41
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

You could use tap water, if you rinse with distilled. Actually, boiled (and cooled) water would be better than straight from the tap.

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Alec
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Logan
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Joined: 22 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Alec124c41 wrote:
You could use tap water, if you rinse with distilled. Actually, boiled (and cooled) water would be better than straight from the tap.


What effect does boiling and then cooling the tap water have as far as purity is concerned?
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Alec124c41
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Boiling will remove some of the hardness = calcium carbonate. Look in the bottom of your kettle.

Cheers,
Alec
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mysticfred
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

I wouldn't use dish detergent on records, they contain alll sorts of chemical nasties.. Crying or Very sad

Tap water is too hard and contains impurities, better to use de-ionised water from any motor spares retailer, and it 's very cheap (1.49 GBP per Litre).
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Logan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Alec124c41 wrote:
Boiling will remove some of the hardness = calcium carbonate. Look in the bottom of your kettle.


It's a little more complicated than that. I think you need to acquaint yourself with some of the chemical principles associated with water hardness. To start with, calcium carbonate does not cause hardness.
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Alec124c41
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Logan wrote:
Alec124c41 wrote:
Boiling will remove some of the hardness = calcium carbonate. Look in the bottom of your kettle.


It's a little more complicated than that. I think you need to acquaint yourself with some of the chemical principles associated with water hardness. To start with, calcium carbonate does not cause hardness.


Limestone is calcium carbonate. Dissolved calcium carbonate is the major cause of hardness.
From Wikipedia:
Hard water is water that has high mineral content (mainly calcium and magnesium ions) (in contrast with soft water). Hard water minerals primarily consist of calcium (Ca2+), and magnesium (Mg2+) metal cations, and sometimes other dissolved compounds such as bicarbonates and sulfates. Calcium usually enters the water as either calcium carbonate (CaCO3), in the form of limestone and chalk, or calcium sulfate (CaSO4), in the form of other mineral deposits. The predominant source of magnesium is dolomite (CaMg(CO3)2). Hard water is generally not harmful to one's health.

Cheers,
Alec
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1200y3
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Joined: 27 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Do not use tap water. And if using distilled water, it is more available now, and you use dish soap to wet it, you should only need a couple drops to a litre. Try small drops untill it wets the vinyl. If you weren't eating off the record I don't see a reason for heavy cleaning. Not being sarcastic, and I have had many records that were very dirty. For those I use Simple Green, and about 15 ml /L. I mean they are so dirty they should be tossed, but they come out neary prestine. I haven't tried Electrosol or dishwasher rinse agent, but I think it would be safer than heavy duty dish soap, but dish soap does have lubricating properties. I use a vacuum cleaner which is an upholstery brush with a 1/16 inch slot in it and velvet edges. A couple drops of water couldn't kill it?
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danmanch
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

....rub gently with an extra soft sponge, let sit for a minute, then I get into the grooves with a delicate nylon brush & rinse thoroughly ~Quote

Sounds good..But make sure you rinse with distilled H2o.
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Logan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Alec124c41 wrote:
Logan wrote:
Alec124c41 wrote:
Boiling will remove some of the hardness = calcium carbonate. Look in the bottom of your kettle.


It's a little more complicated than that. I think you need to acquaint yourself with some of the chemical principles associated with water hardness. To start with, calcium carbonate does not cause hardness.


Limestone is calcium carbonate. Dissolved calcium carbonate is the major cause of hardness.


Calcium carbonate is insoluble in water, as anyone with a high school acquaintance with chemistry would know. So "dissolved" calcium carbonate is an oxymoron if ever I saw one. Aqueous calcium ions in solution on the other hand are one of the components causing hardness in water. This is stated quite clearly in the Wikipedia article which you have misinterpreted. Learn some chemistry before copying out things you don't understand.
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flavio81
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

1200y3 wrote:
Do not use tap water.


Yes, avoid tap water. Distilled water is very cheap and easy to get (sold in auto stores.)
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Alec124c41
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Logan wrote:
Alec124c41 wrote:
Logan wrote:
Alec124c41 wrote:
Boiling will remove some of the hardness = calcium carbonate. Look in the bottom of your kettle.


It's a little more complicated than that. I think you need to acquaint yourself with some of the chemical principles associated with water hardness. To start with, calcium carbonate does not cause hardness.


Limestone is calcium carbonate. Dissolved calcium carbonate is the major cause of hardness.


Calcium carbonate is insoluble in water, as anyone with a high school acquaintance with chemistry would know. So "dissolved" calcium carbonate is an oxymoron if ever I saw one. Aqueous calcium ions in solution on the other hand are one of the components causing hardness in water. This is stated quite clearly in the Wikipedia article which you have misinterpreted. Learn some chemistry before copying out things you don't understand.


Then lets get specific: Rainwater dissolves a bit of carbon dioxide from the air, and becomes a weak carbonic acid, then, seeping through limestone or chalk, ends up with calcium ions and carbonate ions in it. This in turn is capable of precipitating out as calcium carbonate.
Please identify that deposit in the bottom of your kettle.
Go back to your books and learn some real chemistry.

Alec
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shhh...listen
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Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

Quote:
I've read that tap water contains minerals that could be bad for my records...any thoughts?

Yes. You live in the United States so you should be able to get a water quality report for your area and determine the hardness of your water. I found my online(!) by Google-ing "water quality your city". If your tap water is hard, then do not let it dry on your records. Rinse with distilled water.

My water is considered moderately hard. The hardness (as CaCO3) averages around 91 ppm or 5.3 grains per gallon. I still use tap water for cleaning my records. I dry records quickly or use distilled water.
I also use Dawn dish washing liquid. It has all the chemical nasties required to break down dirt and remove greasy smudges. Smile
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Vulcan Viewer
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

In the UK, water hardness varies greatly. In many places you need to clean kettles and the like quite frequently with limescale remove, whereas where I am, in Plymouth, we have very soft water and in 3 years I haven't seen any limescale buildup at all.

However, water in the UK is often treated medicinally, principly with flouride to reduce cavities in teeth. I would not think this would be particularly good for vinyl though. I have no idea what the chemical reaction would be.
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cats squirrel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote report post

why don't you put some tap water on an LP and let it evaporate, then you can see the deposits, if any. Also note, tap water contains suspended solids, something you don't want left behind. As someone has suggested upthread, tap water would be OK, if you used pure water for rinsing.

I would also suggest you use a washing up liquid, and let the suds do their stuff for some while, remember Andy Warhol, and his 15 minutes of foam?
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