PE 34 hifi - anyone have info on this?

aardvarkash10

as part of a deal on an old console with a Garrard 210 in it (yeah, I'm a sucker for punishment...) I got given a PE 34 deck. Its in a suspended chassis, and sits in a veneered chipboard plinth with a perspex cover. A huge, ugly arm looms on the right hand side and the whole thing looks like an East German wet dream, circa 1967.

Who could say no, especially at the price!

I haven't looked in any detail yet, but I'm unreliably informed it has its own phono pre-amp lurking in the deeper confines of the plinth.

I'm wide open and ready to listen to voices of knowledge and reason on this one - what have you got?
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"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

LPfan · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject:

Hi a10,

PE33 instruction manual is available in the library here. Have you seen that? Parahaps yours is the same tt with the addition of RIAA pre amp. The tone arm of the PE33 looks very similar to some Elac models. For a detailed info on PE and Elac, www.dual-board.de seems to be the only place.

Greetings from Mumbai,

LPfan
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nat · contributor Joined: 07 Nov 2002 Posts: 818

There is a Dual site that has lots of pictures of Duals and also a large selection of PE pictures, including equipment from before Dual bought them. Of course, I can't remember what its named

aardvarkash10 · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:33 am Post subject:

update time - had a look under the skirts tonight - what a fascinating piece of gear! 4 speed belt/idler drive, its 10 inch platter is cast aluminium and is HEAVY and suspended on a HUGE sintered bearing with ball bearing end float.

An eddy current brake is used to provide some adjustment to running speed -and its controlled by a little string that runs over pulleys! Its just hilariously beautiful! You get caught up in the diametrically opposed feelings of horror at the flimsy 8th Grade Schoolboy engineering, and admiration for the success of simplicity over technological overkill.

A pre-amp is definitely built in to the unit and outputs via some dodgy looking cables with cheap RCA terminations.

Cart is a Pickering P/AT-1 with a needle that last saw duty in a Toyota knitting machine I suspect.

Upshot - this is going to be worth some effort I reckon! Its more Auto Union than Trabant, and has won me over in 24 hours with its engineering quirks.

This weekend it gets a big ol' cleanup and we will build a new plinth for it since I have metres of native NZ timber (rimu) in 150x50 that is just begging to be turned into a mitre cornered box.

A new cart and then an audition in the next couple of weeks. Photos as we go.

hehehehehehehehehehhehe....
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"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

LPfan · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:58 am Post subject:

Looks like you have netted a bargain! PE’s answer to the TD124 ?

Regards,

LPfan
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aardvarkash10 · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject:

yep - could well be LP. I hope so anyway, because the wife just threw her hands up in horror and is preparing divorce proceedings as we speak! It better be worth it...
_________________
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

aardvarkash10 · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:48 am Post subject:

ok - took the deck out of its box today and pulled the platter off for a serious scrub up.

Some Jif, a polypad and a bit of elbow grease and it was soon free of corrosion and old glue that held the mat down. Not actually polished, but presentable. The spindle is in good order as is the main bearing so that just got a rinse and a re-grease.

The deck is painted in battleship grey - sooooooooo 1960's european! A little ammonia-based cleaner and a light wipe over was all it needed to get a lifetime of fingerprints and dust off. The paint finish is impeccable apart from one tiny chip on the rear of the deck flange - un-noticeable in use.

A piece of 18mm MDF is going to get shaped tomorrow to accept the deck, and then the rimu box will complete the plinth. The present cable system is hard wired to the deck, so that will be shortened and RCA sockets and an IEC power socket will be fitted on the rear of the plinth to improve the ease of connecting it to the rest of any system.

Some research on the pickering cart shows it is a relatively low spec MM unit. The el-cheapo AT from garage-a-records will replace it nicely and keep it compatible for spares with my Garrard decks.

OK, can't wait! I'm off now to test the mechanicals work ok by spinning a disk or two!

Cheers
_________________
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

aardvarkash10 · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: update

ok - got it semi safe and kinda stable (amazing what duct tape can do...) hooked up power and connected it to the trusty tube amp (if you are going retro you may as well go all the way!)

Positives:
1 - The platter turns under its own power.
2 - The arm tracks (more or less)
3 - The stylus converts ripples to vibrations (more or less)
4 - the cart converts vibrations to a voltage (more or less)
5 - The built in phono pre converts this signal to a line level output (of sorts)

Negatives
1 - The platter turns at around 20% lower than stated speeds
2 - The arm is a B'stard to set up and balance as it is so short it resembles a kid's see-saw (tetter-totter for Los Americanos)
3 - The stylus was originally used to innoculate elk. Possibly. It is not of audiophile quality...
4 - The cartridge will make a lovely conversation piece and will be much safer encased in a solid block of epoxy as a paperweight.
5 - The phono pre produces more hum than signal. Similar to an old 2 stroke motorcycle I once owned that had more piston-slap than stroke, except that the motorcycle still pulled the birds. This hum merely pulls your hair and teeth from your body.

So, a challenge is in place. I'll keep you posted...
_________________
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

aardvarkash10 · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:52 am Post subject:

update - not a lot has happened.

b****r.

Got the mdf plinth cut out and painted BRIGHT RED. five coats, glossy as.

Decided that, if this is a go-ahead project, the rimu is out and we are going for the lego block look.

However, before spending too much time on the bling factor, the more important get the thing running right approach is required.

So, at the moment it runs slow. Everything mechanical seems fine - no tight bearings, the motor armature turns freely, the idler, while a little hard, is making good contact with the rim and the drive pulley.

I am, therefore, at the end of my knowledge. Any ideas on how to test hte motor itself for correct operation?

btw, the Library has the operating manual for the console version (PE 344) of this tt - it came out with an integrated 6W solid state amp! Boy, you Euro types obviously knew how to paaaaar-tay! I'll bet it rocked da house! All the Fraus and Herrs shaking it up to some Eurovision winner!

Not a lot of technical stuff unfortunately...
_________________
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

josephazannieri · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: PE turntable

Yo Aardvarkash10:

Sounds scary to me! You say it runs about 20% slow. Is it possible that you have 50 Hz mains and this thing wants 60 Hz mains? Also, try turning the motor spindle with your fingers and see if it spins easily. You may have to take motor apart and clean and lube bearings. Is voltage set right?

All the rest of the problems seem pretty straightforward except for that. That hum stuff is either wiring or a bad preamp. Is it a tube preamp? check the tube. It might be bad.

I'll give you G for guts for this one! Good luck from the old fearmonger!

Joe Z.

josephazannieri · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: additional

Yo Aarvarkash again:

Is it slow and steady or does it wow? Does it go through the change cycle or does it slow way down or stop?

I tried this test on my old Garrard that slowed down and stopped while changing.

Try dragging your finger on the turntable mat or edge while the TT is spinning. You should feel the idler wheel digging in and the motor pulling. If it slows down easily, and motor keeps turning, then you have an idler contact issue, or a bad idler wheel that is hard or slipping. You can sand the edge of the idler with 220 grit paper, or you can tighten the spring that holds idler against the motor spindle. Try either or both. If idler is a "little hard" it is suspect. There are chemicals that will soften it up, but sandpaper is quick and cheap. Don't go crazy, just expose a new surface.

Sandpaper cured the Garrard.

Good luck from the old sander!

Joe Z.

aardvarkash10 · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:23 am Post subject:

thanks Joe! Yeah, I suspected wrong frequency, but nothing on the tt indicates it is a 60hz machine and it had the appropriate local plug on the power lead, so I'm going forward assuming its a 50hz motor. Moreover, none of the literature I CAN get says anything about different pulleys, motors etc for the two frequencies...

Now I have it in a bit of a plinth, I'll do as you suggest and load test the idler - might even take some photos!

The hum etc is all straightforward stuff - electrons come and go, you just have to track them. Preamp is a little old SS unit so it may yet get biffed in favour of direct connection to my Hagerman Cornet. The attraction of a line level output is solid though!

No bravery required on this - its a rebuild on the cheap. I either come out with a handy little tt, or I have a donor for other projects and have learnt a bit - whats to lose????
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"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

LPfan · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:00 am Post subject:

Hi a10,

You mentioned that it is belt/idler drive. So there is probably a pully on the motor shaft, that is driving a belt to another pully under the idler wheel. Are these pullys single step or two step? They might be two step to adjust for line frequency.

Regards,

LPfan
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Music is a universal language.

aardvarkash10 · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:49 am Post subject:

update:

Thanks Joe - good advice. The idler is VERY hard - a Bakelite sort of material, not rubber. I scuffed some of the built up dirt and oil residue from the running surface by mounting the idler in a drill and GENTLY running it against some 280 grit.

Result - better grip and subjectively better traction. However, just applying some sideloading onto the idler (imitating the loading of the platter rim) there is a rumble and once-every-revolution kaa-donk. The idler surface is clearly NOT 100% round

So then it was off with the platter and a REALLY good clean of the idler running surface. Discovery - it looks like someone has spent an rainy Saturday afternoon tapping the running surface with a four-inch nail - there is a series of little punchmarks all around the inside of the rim. Its going to take some serious work to polish them out.

Explains the unidentified bits of the rumble though.

So, I THINK I'm on the lookout for an idler. And ideas for polishing out the divots on the platter without putting it out of round too.

BTW, there is a makers ID tag under the platter that identifies the unit as a 50hz item. My one go-forward for the day.

Thank for the ideas LP - see the photos for detail of the drive system.
_________________
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do, life's been good to me so far..." Joe Walsh, 1976-ish

LPfan · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:38 am Post subject:

The idler can be mounted on a lathe machine and the hard top layer skimmed off with a dimond tool. This is Blue Angel's method that has worked very well for me.

The platter inner rim is a big challange. Any change in diameter here due to polishing or skimming on lathe shall affect the speed. Before you start any work here, measure the inner rim dia so we have the original reference.

Regards,

LPfan
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Music is a universal language.